1 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:31,630 [Music] 2 00:00:35,620 --> 00:00:33,760 this episode of the power cast is 3 00:00:37,150 --> 00:00:35,630 brought to you by audible.com the 4 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:37,160 internet's leading provider of 5 00:00:42,340 --> 00:00:40,010 audiobooks with more than 75,000 6 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:42,350 downloadable titles across all types of 7 00:00:47,110 --> 00:00:43,610 literature including fiction nonfiction 8 00:00:49,979 --> 00:00:47,120 in periodicals for free audio book of 9 00:00:52,990 --> 00:00:49,989 your choice go to audible podcast.com 10 00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:53,000 slash para cast that's audible 11 00:00:58,000 --> 00:00:56,930 podcast.com slash para cast and now on 12 00:01:00,880 --> 00:00:58,010 with the show 13 00:01:03,310 --> 00:01:00,890 I can't think that any recent discussion 14 00:01:06,190 --> 00:01:03,320 we've had the power cast Forbes has 15 00:01:08,950 --> 00:01:06,200 consumed more pages than UFO abductions 16 00:01:11,770 --> 00:01:08,960 except in the early years the Billy 17 00:01:15,820 --> 00:01:11,780 Meyer I said that word the B word I feel 18 00:01:18,550 --> 00:01:15,830 quite a few pages of conversation but a 19 00:01:21,130 --> 00:01:18,560 lot of it you know goes back to the 20 00:01:24,190 --> 00:01:21,140 episode that you and I did with Budd 21 00:01:26,620 --> 00:01:24,200 Hopkins and Kevin Randall and dr. David 22 00:01:29,620 --> 00:01:26,630 Jacobs but there been responses from 23 00:01:32,980 --> 00:01:29,630 that person who claims she was wronged 24 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:32,990 by David Jacobs in the forums she uses 25 00:01:39,100 --> 00:01:35,450 the name Emma woods but for some reason 26 00:01:41,170 --> 00:01:39,110 dr. Jacobs calls her Alice which means 27 00:01:43,300 --> 00:01:41,180 maybe he's saying she's from Wonderland 28 00:01:46,149 --> 00:01:43,310 or something I'm not sure well she's 29 00:01:48,639 --> 00:01:46,159 definitely from Oz yes true she's 30 00:01:51,370 --> 00:01:48,649 definitely from way down under but the 31 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:51,380 problem I have here is we have a 32 00:01:57,850 --> 00:01:55,250 therapist in New Zealand who upon having 33 00:02:01,300 --> 00:01:57,860 a patient who claims to be abducted by 34 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:01,310 UFOs seeks out somebody in America and 35 00:02:08,620 --> 00:02:05,450 gives permission for him to do hypnotic 36 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:08,630 regression by telephone across the Great 37 00:02:12,340 --> 00:02:10,850 Divide around the world to someone he's 38 00:02:12,819 --> 00:02:12,350 never met know what's wrong with that 39 00:02:15,550 --> 00:02:12,829 picture 40 00:02:17,740 --> 00:02:15,560 yeah right now it's not so much whether 41 00:02:19,539 --> 00:02:17,750 or not David Jacobs should be doing that 42 00:02:21,970 --> 00:02:19,549 he says it's normal practice and I have 43 00:02:25,030 --> 00:02:21,980 concerns about the practice it's the 44 00:02:27,699 --> 00:02:25,040 mindset of an alleged therapist who will 45 00:02:29,050 --> 00:02:27,709 tell his patients that's okay you know 46 00:02:30,729 --> 00:02:29,060 that worries me 47 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:30,739 the second part of it is that David 48 00:02:34,330 --> 00:02:32,690 Jacobs would even take upon this patient 49 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:34,340 you have somebody calling from New 50 00:02:38,229 --> 00:02:35,450 Zealand you're never gonna meet that 51 00:02:41,890 --> 00:02:38,239 person can you accept them as someone 52 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:41,900 you want to evaluate for possible UFO 53 00:02:46,490 --> 00:02:43,770 abductions and then the third 54 00:02:49,340 --> 00:02:46,500 I have is with Emma or Alice or whatever 55 00:02:51,110 --> 00:02:49,350 her name is agreeing to this and not 56 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:51,120 just saying this is ridiculous let me 57 00:02:56,210 --> 00:02:54,090 get some help and get on with my life so 58 00:02:57,680 --> 00:02:56,220 I think everybody's wrong yeah there are 59 00:03:00,800 --> 00:02:57,690 no winners in this scenario and it's 60 00:03:02,870 --> 00:03:00,810 it's really unfortunate that I think 61 00:03:04,700 --> 00:03:02,880 that this thing obviously you know it's 62 00:03:07,550 --> 00:03:04,710 unfortunate spun out of control but I 63 00:03:09,980 --> 00:03:07,560 think it's also unfortunate that it the 64 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:09,990 whole scenario got just got legs and 65 00:03:13,130 --> 00:03:11,490 started in the first place tonight 66 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:13,140 I think Jacobs hasn't really no one to 67 00:03:16,970 --> 00:03:15,330 blame but himself on that I mean but 68 00:03:20,180 --> 00:03:16,980 you'll mentioned on the show that he 69 00:03:22,340 --> 00:03:20,190 read the science of you know a potential 70 00:03:25,460 --> 00:03:22,350 problem with this particular individual 71 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:25,470 when she sent a huge box of information 72 00:03:32,180 --> 00:03:29,490 a lot of you know bewildering monitoring 73 00:03:34,700 --> 00:03:32,190 laborious monitoring of her vitals and 74 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:34,710 stuff I think but and he did mention 75 00:03:38,900 --> 00:03:37,170 this that he read some warning signs in 76 00:03:42,170 --> 00:03:38,910 that and you would think that someone as 77 00:03:43,910 --> 00:03:42,180 smart as dr. Jacobs would have also you 78 00:03:47,150 --> 00:03:43,920 know the thought long and hard about 79 00:03:50,540 --> 00:03:47,160 getting involved of this person and you 80 00:03:52,790 --> 00:03:50,550 know it's pretty unfortunate that it's 81 00:03:54,500 --> 00:03:52,800 that it's kind of unwound the way it has 82 00:03:57,470 --> 00:03:54,510 and and you're right Jean this has 83 00:04:01,190 --> 00:03:57,480 really created quite a quite a number of 84 00:04:03,500 --> 00:04:01,200 posts on the on the para cast forum and 85 00:04:06,170 --> 00:04:03,510 you know I think it does sort of 86 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:06,180 illustrate the very controversial nature 87 00:04:11,330 --> 00:04:08,610 even within ufology of the abduction 88 00:04:13,270 --> 00:04:11,340 phenomenon I and I I was gratified to 89 00:04:16,039 --> 00:04:13,280 see that some of the posters agreed with 90 00:04:18,229 --> 00:04:16,049 some of the observations that Kevin and 91 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:18,239 I made and that you made about the need 92 00:04:25,190 --> 00:04:22,170 for Standardization a real you know 93 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:25,200 obvious need to attempt in some way 94 00:04:28,820 --> 00:04:26,730 shape or form to come up with a with 95 00:04:32,060 --> 00:04:28,830 some sort of protocols or a program to 96 00:04:34,450 --> 00:04:32,070 obtain physical evidence and in the 97 00:04:38,300 --> 00:04:34,460 whole idea of videotape and and 98 00:04:40,340 --> 00:04:38,310 utilizing technology to to bolster the 99 00:04:43,940 --> 00:04:40,350 claims of these people who in my opinion 100 00:04:47,060 --> 00:04:43,950 are having some some sort of weird very 101 00:04:50,510 --> 00:04:47,070 bizarre out of the norm experiences but 102 00:04:52,190 --> 00:04:50,520 you know again I left the episode 103 00:04:55,190 --> 00:04:52,200 scratching my head you know more 104 00:04:57,920 --> 00:04:55,200 confused really then then I was when I 105 00:05:00,940 --> 00:04:57,930 started I I do feel people are having 106 00:05:03,230 --> 00:05:00,950 real experiences but I think my gut is 107 00:05:06,230 --> 00:05:03,240 sort of telling me that we're dealing 108 00:05:08,630 --> 00:05:06,240 with something that is that a psycho and 109 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:08,640 the psychological in nature I think and 110 00:05:13,850 --> 00:05:11,610 that people may be tapping into some 111 00:05:16,430 --> 00:05:13,860 something that is truly other but I'm 112 00:05:18,770 --> 00:05:16,440 still confused about the about the 113 00:05:21,529 --> 00:05:18,780 actual physical nature of these claims 114 00:05:24,500 --> 00:05:21,539 and of these alleged events you know 115 00:05:27,710 --> 00:05:24,510 what I think Chris I think that if you 116 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:27,720 had video cameras stationed in the 117 00:05:30,969 --> 00:05:29,130 bedrooms and in the homes of these 118 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:30,979 people when they have these experiences 119 00:05:34,940 --> 00:05:32,970 you're not going to see anything 120 00:05:37,250 --> 00:05:34,950 captured and there could be two reasons 121 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:37,260 for that one is the technology will 122 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:39,450 block it the other is that they're 123 00:05:43,550 --> 00:05:42,090 experiencing something real internally 124 00:05:45,950 --> 00:05:43,560 and the problem I have with the whole 125 00:05:48,620 --> 00:05:45,960 thing though is not just that something 126 00:05:51,409 --> 00:05:48,630 might be happening that's real but the 127 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:51,419 way we investigate there is no certainty 128 00:05:56,590 --> 00:05:54,450 in the medical disciplines that hypnotic 129 00:05:59,360 --> 00:05:56,600 regression provides an accurate 130 00:06:01,790 --> 00:05:59,370 recollection of the facts you know I 131 00:06:05,270 --> 00:06:01,800 think that's highly controversial the 132 00:06:07,670 --> 00:06:05,280 second thing is because of the sensitive 133 00:06:09,770 --> 00:06:07,680 nature and I'm going to assume here that 134 00:06:12,500 --> 00:06:09,780 Budd Hopkins and David Jacobs are 135 00:06:15,260 --> 00:06:12,510 totally sincere they worked very hard to 136 00:06:17,450 --> 00:06:15,270 hone their skills at doing hypnosis it 137 00:06:19,430 --> 00:06:17,460 should still be left to the province of 138 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:19,440 therapists yeah I agree I think that 139 00:06:26,510 --> 00:06:22,410 that that particular aspect of this 140 00:06:29,060 --> 00:06:26,520 whole investigative approach does call I 141 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:29,070 think a lot of good work into question 142 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:31,050 and it does it's kind of a baby in the 143 00:06:37,159 --> 00:06:33,330 bath water type scenario I think if not 144 00:06:39,110 --> 00:06:37,169 a congressional Uwe Boll tool but I 145 00:06:40,460 --> 00:06:39,120 don't think that it should be the end 146 00:06:44,090 --> 00:06:40,470 all and be all I don't think he should 147 00:06:46,159 --> 00:06:44,100 base an entire you know legitimacy of a 148 00:06:49,730 --> 00:06:46,169 case based solely on on the information 149 00:06:55,159 --> 00:06:49,740 retrieved in that manner I think it's it 150 00:06:58,070 --> 00:06:55,169 until a better approach is somehow you 151 00:07:00,740 --> 00:06:58,080 know just you know they figure out some 152 00:07:03,230 --> 00:07:00,750 better way to gain access to this 153 00:07:06,709 --> 00:07:03,240 information i I think it's it's always 154 00:07:07,430 --> 00:07:06,719 going to be a questionable subject and 155 00:07:10,100 --> 00:07:07,440 most people 156 00:07:12,620 --> 00:07:10,110 and even in the minds of some muster is 157 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:12,630 UFO researchers also I think that 158 00:07:17,630 --> 00:07:15,090 constantly dwelling on this one case 159 00:07:20,510 --> 00:07:17,640 becomes a sideshow a distraction because 160 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:20,520 no matter whether dr. Jacobs did 161 00:07:24,650 --> 00:07:22,770 anything wrong let's assume that he did 162 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:24,660 something wrong if she's right or that 163 00:07:29,660 --> 00:07:27,450 she is completely wacky and he did most 164 00:07:33,020 --> 00:07:29,670 things right whatever it's a distraction 165 00:07:35,330 --> 00:07:33,030 because we're focusing on one case one 166 00:07:37,610 --> 00:07:35,340 problem we need to focus on the entire 167 00:07:39,650 --> 00:07:37,620 picture the entire evidence to see where 168 00:07:42,590 --> 00:07:39,660 it goes where it takes us and what 169 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:42,600 validity it has and also what methods 170 00:07:47,540 --> 00:07:45,690 best serve this kind of study and it 171 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:47,550 can't happen if we just focus on this 172 00:07:53,030 --> 00:07:50,490 emotional issue you know yeah that's 173 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:53,040 true and it does you know I've always 174 00:07:57,740 --> 00:07:55,410 kind of wondered I don't know that much 175 00:08:01,100 --> 00:07:57,750 about the the the background of her 176 00:08:05,300 --> 00:08:01,110 particular case but but you know there 177 00:08:07,610 --> 00:08:05,310 is I think a hint of setup and and I I 178 00:08:10,790 --> 00:08:07,620 do feel that the the person at the other 179 00:08:13,340 --> 00:08:10,800 end of this particular controversy there 180 00:08:15,350 --> 00:08:13,350 in New Zealand is it appears to me that 181 00:08:18,260 --> 00:08:15,360 she could she could use some serious 182 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:18,270 professional psychological health I kind 183 00:08:22,550 --> 00:08:20,370 of feel for for David in that he's 184 00:08:24,830 --> 00:08:22,560 having to deal with someone that that 185 00:08:28,970 --> 00:08:24,840 it's just so just hell-bent for leather 186 00:08:30,620 --> 00:08:28,980 to really go after him and you know it's 187 00:08:32,900 --> 00:08:30,630 really unfortunate like you said that we 188 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:32,910 were spending so much time discussing 189 00:08:39,469 --> 00:08:37,890 the merits of this particular case in 190 00:08:43,969 --> 00:08:39,479 terms of the approach that the Jacob 191 00:08:47,210 --> 00:08:43,979 selected to use and and we are sort of 192 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:47,220 losing sight of the obvious reality of 193 00:08:51,890 --> 00:08:49,770 these these very puzzling events in 194 00:08:54,560 --> 00:08:51,900 people's lives and then the one thing 195 00:08:56,270 --> 00:08:54,570 that I think shouldn't be forgotten and 196 00:08:59,630 --> 00:08:56,280 you did just mention this is is that 197 00:09:01,700 --> 00:08:59,640 davidon in but it really I in some sense 198 00:09:03,770 --> 00:09:01,710 of the word have really helped a lot of 199 00:09:06,020 --> 00:09:03,780 people come to grips with very puzzling 200 00:09:08,630 --> 00:09:06,030 events in their lives and and that 201 00:09:10,700 --> 00:09:08,640 particular sense of service that they 202 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:10,710 have applied to this it was highly 203 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:12,330 commendable and and we shouldn't lose 204 00:09:18,230 --> 00:09:14,730 sight of the fact that they they really 205 00:09:20,570 --> 00:09:18,240 are attempting I think if with good 206 00:09:22,730 --> 00:09:20,580 hearts to to truly help people 207 00:09:25,519 --> 00:09:22,740 and and to truly provide them with some 208 00:09:27,079 --> 00:09:25,529 sort of recourse to come to grips with 209 00:09:28,639 --> 00:09:27,089 these experiences and that's something 210 00:09:30,699 --> 00:09:28,649 that should never be forgotten by 211 00:09:33,590 --> 00:09:30,709 anybody on either side of this 212 00:09:36,560 --> 00:09:33,600 particular Emma Woods controversy and 213 00:09:39,050 --> 00:09:36,570 and just looking at abduction researches 214 00:09:41,630 --> 00:09:39,060 and I think in general I think that they 215 00:09:44,900 --> 00:09:41,640 are attempting to help people but there 216 00:09:47,750 --> 00:09:44,910 is no substitute for you know for a 217 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:47,760 professional psychological involvement 218 00:09:50,810 --> 00:09:49,410 in in some of these cases and that 219 00:09:54,170 --> 00:09:50,820 that's something I think that should be 220 00:09:56,990 --> 00:09:54,180 brought into into some of these people's 221 00:10:00,319 --> 00:09:57,000 lives in cases more so than it is 222 00:10:02,449 --> 00:10:00,329 this week we're exploring UFOs from here 223 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:02,459 and it still might be the cause of these 224 00:10:07,610 --> 00:10:05,490 abductions but to give people background 225 00:10:09,560 --> 00:10:07,620 in a recent show we focused on a book 226 00:10:12,050 --> 00:10:09,570 called equipped o terrestrials by the 227 00:10:15,470 --> 00:10:12,060 late Mac Tony's where he talked about a 228 00:10:18,050 --> 00:10:15,480 race of beings that perhaps exists or 229 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:18,060 coexist with us they stay hidden from us 230 00:10:23,449 --> 00:10:20,610 in the oceans and the caves whatever and 231 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:23,459 this brings to light lots of other 232 00:10:27,350 --> 00:10:25,410 fascinating possibilities one of those I 233 00:10:30,500 --> 00:10:27,360 mentioned was of course the case of 234 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:30,510 Richard shaver who said he visited the D 235 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:33,450 rose and T rose in the caverns and we're 236 00:10:37,100 --> 00:10:35,850 going to make this sort of a sequel for 237 00:10:40,250 --> 00:10:37,110 that discussion talking about 238 00:10:42,350 --> 00:10:40,260 earth-based UFOs the Hollow Earth and 239 00:10:45,170 --> 00:10:42,360 everything more our guest will be Mike 240 00:10:47,930 --> 00:10:45,180 Cleland Alain Greenfield and William 241 00:10:50,560 --> 00:10:47,940 Michael Mott coming up next on the 242 00:10:53,110 --> 00:10:50,570 bearer gust 243 00:10:55,060 --> 00:10:53,120 we're not in Kansas anymore hi this is 244 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00:12:09,290 to you by audible.com the internet's 273 00:12:14,289 --> 00:12:11,509 leading provider of audiobooks with more 274 00:12:16,419 --> 00:12:14,299 than 75,000 downloadable titles across 275 00:12:18,519 --> 00:12:16,429 all types of literature and featuring 276 00:12:20,529 --> 00:12:18,529 audio versions of many new york times 277 00:12:23,139 --> 00:12:20,539 bestsellers for listeners of the power 278 00:12:25,329 --> 00:12:23,149 castes audible.com is offering a free 279 00:12:27,489 --> 00:12:25,339 audiobook to give you a chance to try 280 00:12:29,710 --> 00:12:27,499 out their service one book to consider 281 00:12:32,739 --> 00:12:29,720 for example is above top secret the 282 00:12:34,210 --> 00:12:32,749 worldwide UFO cover-up by Timothy good 283 00:12:36,699 --> 00:12:34,220 Timothy good as you know has been a 284 00:12:38,739 --> 00:12:36,709 guest on the power cast for this book or 285 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:38,749 another free audio book of your choice 286 00:12:53,710 --> 00:12:51,410 go to audiblepodcast.com/tekzilla sing 287 00:12:59,019 --> 00:12:53,720 to the parrot talk with gene Steinberg 288 00:13:02,049 --> 00:12:59,029 and David B it means the subject is UFOs 289 00:13:03,759 --> 00:13:02,059 from Earth in the tradition of that 290 00:13:05,499 --> 00:13:03,769 recent book from the late Mac Tony's the 291 00:13:06,579 --> 00:13:05,509 crypto terrestrials my co-host 292 00:13:09,549 --> 00:13:06,589 Christopher O Brien 293 00:13:11,799 --> 00:13:09,559 we welcome my good old friend now in 294 00:13:12,489 --> 00:13:11,809 Greenfield he's good and old or 295 00:13:18,999 --> 00:13:12,499 something like that 296 00:13:23,139 --> 00:13:19,009 my Cleland William Michael my old do you 297 00:13:25,479 --> 00:13:23,149 feel Allen okay well in the 36 year old 298 00:13:28,689 --> 00:13:25,489 Allan Greenfield is with us now on in 299 00:13:31,929 --> 00:13:28,699 the previous discussion I do I mentioned 300 00:13:34,509 --> 00:13:31,939 our famous all-night conversation from 301 00:13:38,039 --> 00:13:34,519 the 1960s the legendary conversation 302 00:13:41,319 --> 00:13:38,049 where we decided that UFOs maybe are not 303 00:13:44,349 --> 00:13:41,329 extraterrestrial and maybe we'll just 304 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:44,359 focus on that with you at one point when 305 00:13:49,659 --> 00:13:46,730 you were starting out as a UFO research 306 00:13:51,909 --> 00:13:49,669 for the Jew feel that maybe it wasn't et 307 00:13:54,639 --> 00:13:51,919 that maybe something else caused this to 308 00:13:56,949 --> 00:13:54,649 happen well right around the time we had 309 00:13:59,499 --> 00:13:56,959 that particular discussion and it was 310 00:14:01,250 --> 00:13:59,509 more like two and a half days with no 311 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:01,260 sleep so you know 312 00:14:07,670 --> 00:14:04,290 we should put it that in context I was 313 00:14:09,740 --> 00:14:07,680 just beginning to doubt the ETH as it's 314 00:14:12,980 --> 00:14:09,750 called I really don't think that it's 315 00:14:16,250 --> 00:14:12,990 it's genuinely a hypothesis it's um it's 316 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:16,260 an idea and it's you know it's useful as 317 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:19,170 an idea but really I don't see any 318 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:24,210 connection UFOs are seeing around or on 319 00:14:30,020 --> 00:14:27,810 the earth and not the only the only 320 00:14:31,700 --> 00:14:30,030 spacecraft I know of anywhere else are 321 00:14:34,790 --> 00:14:31,710 on the Moon and Mars and we put them 322 00:14:37,550 --> 00:14:34,800 there other than that the connection 323 00:14:40,070 --> 00:14:37,560 itself is very strange but up until that 324 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:40,080 point I was right in transition I was 325 00:14:47,060 --> 00:14:43,410 moving from what I would call being pro 326 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:47,070 DTH to being doubtful about that and 327 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:49,410 looking for something that I was then 328 00:14:54,230 --> 00:14:51,210 calling the alternate reality theory 329 00:14:57,170 --> 00:14:54,240 well Jim Mosley who is you know sort of 330 00:14:59,480 --> 00:14:57,180 the the the originator of an earth 331 00:15:02,270 --> 00:14:59,490 theory that it was the secret weapon 332 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:02,280 sort of thing introducing that to you 333 00:15:05,810 --> 00:15:03,930 follow G and he came up with the notion 334 00:15:08,150 --> 00:15:05,820 of right around the same time of the 335 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:08,160 three and a half G theory that's also 336 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:10,530 the time that lowlife John keel started 337 00:15:17,330 --> 00:15:13,530 to interject himself into our or circle 338 00:15:19,790 --> 00:15:17,340 and that he always had sort of any 339 00:15:21,350 --> 00:15:19,800 different idea things I was thinking in 340 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:21,360 a different direction and I suppose 341 00:15:27,350 --> 00:15:25,050 after 36 hours or so we were discussing 342 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:27,360 the Jewishness of Columbus and a lot of 343 00:15:32,570 --> 00:15:30,690 other very strange things I don't want 344 00:15:35,090 --> 00:15:32,580 to get not as close in some direction 345 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:35,100 other than extraterrestrial and as you 346 00:15:41,450 --> 00:15:37,530 wish Columbus well the point being that 347 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:41,460 all idea well actually there's a bit of 348 00:15:46,370 --> 00:15:43,410 evidence for that but it seemed a lot 349 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:46,380 bigger after 36 hours and no sleep but 350 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:48,330 after we woke up I think there's still 351 00:15:53,900 --> 00:15:50,250 some compelling ideas there Alan right 352 00:15:57,080 --> 00:15:53,910 oh I mean I have gone on to have a much 353 00:15:59,290 --> 00:15:57,090 more complex idea that I have never seen 354 00:16:03,680 --> 00:15:59,300 a subscribed to an extraterrestrial 355 00:16:07,850 --> 00:16:03,690 notion of the origin of you thoughts I 356 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:07,860 think the secret is much more complex I 357 00:16:11,519 --> 00:16:09,930 know when we talk about earth-based UFOs 358 00:16:13,829 --> 00:16:11,529 we tend to think of 359 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:13,839 people like Richard shaver now I knew 360 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:16,810 shaver Allen knew shaver you know I met 361 00:16:22,050 --> 00:16:20,410 shaver at his famous cottage in Arkansas 362 00:16:24,329 --> 00:16:22,060 I don't know who it was 363 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:24,339 where Bill Clinton or Mike Huckabee were 364 00:16:28,319 --> 00:16:26,290 born but you know in this cottage way 365 00:16:30,090 --> 00:16:28,329 out in the woods William Michael Mont 366 00:16:33,329 --> 00:16:30,100 you've written about Richard Schaffer 367 00:16:35,489 --> 00:16:33,339 what attracted you to that some people 368 00:16:38,730 --> 00:16:35,499 felt shaver was just a science fiction 369 00:16:40,650 --> 00:16:38,740 writer he was a little bit nuts what did 370 00:16:43,470 --> 00:16:40,660 you think Michael well you know my 371 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:43,480 introduction to shaver came through the 372 00:16:47,879 --> 00:16:45,970 works of people like keel and Steiger 373 00:16:49,319 --> 00:16:47,889 and you know when I was going to sell it 374 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:49,329 and now of course I was a whole fishing 375 00:16:55,530 --> 00:16:53,170 fan and I heard it's worth it when I 376 00:16:57,660 --> 00:16:55,540 solve it that he had these alternative 377 00:17:00,780 --> 00:16:57,670 theories and particularly the way in 378 00:17:04,429 --> 00:17:00,790 which he was vilified ridicule and so 379 00:17:09,090 --> 00:17:04,439 forth my interest I really didn't start 380 00:17:10,620 --> 00:17:09,100 looking shaver his ideas yeah until I 381 00:17:13,380 --> 00:17:10,630 started looking into some of these other 382 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:13,390 matters of death and like how I'm like I 383 00:17:17,699 --> 00:17:14,890 kind of reached the conclusion that not 384 00:17:19,590 --> 00:17:17,709 just UFOs but most it's not all other 385 00:17:23,399 --> 00:17:19,600 mysteries that people are so fascinated 386 00:17:26,069 --> 00:17:23,409 by really the evidence is it seems to 387 00:17:27,809 --> 00:17:26,079 indicate that those mysteries have their 388 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:27,819 origins right here on earth I mean 389 00:17:33,419 --> 00:17:30,010 there's nothing that people see your 390 00:17:35,940 --> 00:17:33,429 experience that is in any way truly 391 00:17:37,740 --> 00:17:35,950 alien in terms of the biology 392 00:17:40,020 --> 00:17:37,750 they usually have you know mammalian 393 00:17:42,029 --> 00:17:40,030 reptilian or even human characteristics 394 00:17:44,010 --> 00:17:42,039 they seem to have a what I call an 395 00:17:45,539 --> 00:17:44,020 earthly vertebrate template and the 396 00:17:47,010 --> 00:17:45,549 evidence just overwhelming in terms of 397 00:17:48,539 --> 00:17:47,020 you know it's like I felt somebody 398 00:17:51,149 --> 00:17:48,549 recently on a radio show 399 00:17:53,190 --> 00:17:51,159 these beings were for somewhere else if 400 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:53,200 they had the technology to printer's for 401 00:17:57,180 --> 00:17:54,730 interstellar flight if they had the 402 00:17:58,380 --> 00:17:57,190 technology that you reach or surpass the 403 00:18:00,899 --> 00:17:58,390 speed of light if they had the 404 00:18:04,139 --> 00:18:00,909 technology to create wormholes or to 405 00:18:06,630 --> 00:18:04,149 travel between dimensions genetic 406 00:18:09,029 --> 00:18:06,640 dilemma or it's an any problem that they 407 00:18:10,889 --> 00:18:09,039 desperately need to fix first of all why 408 00:18:12,389 --> 00:18:10,899 would they choose us because they're 409 00:18:14,130 --> 00:18:12,399 coming to be such genetically dissimilar 410 00:18:16,169 --> 00:18:14,140 that it's just absurd that they would 411 00:18:19,770 --> 00:18:16,179 even do so unless they came from the 412 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:19,780 same genetic biosphere the other part is 413 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:22,450 that this idea is that genetically 414 00:18:25,700 --> 00:18:23,650 speaking 415 00:18:27,540 --> 00:18:25,710 that advanced they would have the 416 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:27,550 nanotechnology or the advanced 417 00:18:31,890 --> 00:18:29,290 technology or the science that would 418 00:18:33,690 --> 00:18:31,900 enable them to simply recombine your own 419 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:33,700 DNA they can repair their own genetic 420 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:37,090 damage they wouldn't need to take part 421 00:18:43,050 --> 00:18:40,450 in same types of predatory sexual 422 00:18:44,850 --> 00:18:43,060 exploits that the fairies took part in 423 00:18:47,010 --> 00:18:44,860 that the demons and the succubi and 424 00:18:48,360 --> 00:18:47,020 incubi you know they wouldn't have to 425 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:48,370 resort in these same tactics that 426 00:18:52,230 --> 00:18:50,530 actually they've been resorting to under 427 00:18:54,150 --> 00:18:52,240 different names for thousands of years 428 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:54,160 there's an indication there's a huge 429 00:18:58,020 --> 00:18:55,690 deception and that's something nothing 430 00:19:00,030 --> 00:18:58,030 to shaver kind of touched on now there's 431 00:19:02,100 --> 00:19:00,040 a deception in place where there's a 432 00:19:04,170 --> 00:19:02,110 desperation on the part of these beings 433 00:19:05,940 --> 00:19:04,180 to say hey we're not people from up 434 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:05,950 there look up there we're from way over 435 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:07,930 there listen as this star that star and 436 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:10,090 it's almost like a almost like a yacht 437 00:19:13,650 --> 00:19:11,650 they're trying to be people over the 438 00:19:16,740 --> 00:19:13,660 head with this idea it's a it's obvious 439 00:19:18,750 --> 00:19:16,750 that you know if they're predatory or a 440 00:19:20,580 --> 00:19:18,760 parasitic relationship with us and they 441 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:20,590 I always have I'm their best interest 442 00:19:23,790 --> 00:19:21,730 for us to know that they're from here 443 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:23,800 it's in their best interest to keep us 444 00:19:28,170 --> 00:19:26,410 looking up or into other dimensions or 445 00:19:30,180 --> 00:19:28,180 all these other ideas that they that 446 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:30,190 they throw at us we have our encounters 447 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:32,530 but when the actual hard reality it 448 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:33,970 seems to be indicated by the evidence 449 00:19:37,380 --> 00:19:35,170 about the encounters that people have 450 00:19:39,300 --> 00:19:37,390 always always had these beings for 451 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:39,310 thousands of years is it different right 452 00:19:43,530 --> 00:19:41,770 here and they have an agenda and they 453 00:19:45,540 --> 00:19:43,540 one of the main things they get 454 00:19:48,180 --> 00:19:45,550 developed over time is an incredible 455 00:19:50,460 --> 00:19:48,190 ability to fool us they know how to work 456 00:19:53,460 --> 00:19:50,470 and how we think and they're very good 457 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:53,470 at diverting our attention elsewhere now 458 00:19:58,410 --> 00:19:55,090 we have an additional guest who is 459 00:20:00,810 --> 00:19:58,420 popped in amazingly now with a strange 460 00:20:02,970 --> 00:20:00,820 telling grade like the D rose and Tarot 461 00:20:06,030 --> 00:20:02,980 is used we just Sur popped in and that's 462 00:20:09,180 --> 00:20:06,040 Walter Bosley Walter welcome to the show 463 00:20:11,850 --> 00:20:09,190 maybe frame your particular viewpoint 464 00:20:14,220 --> 00:20:11,860 about UFOs and mysteries like that 465 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:14,230 caused by something to rest real base 466 00:20:19,530 --> 00:20:17,290 what do you think I'm yes absolutely 467 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:19,540 I'm on board now I believe you know in 468 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:22,290 the macrocosm yes I do think there are 469 00:20:29,430 --> 00:20:25,210 extraterrestrial civilizations of course 470 00:20:33,180 --> 00:20:29,440 but I think there is definitely a hidden 471 00:20:35,730 --> 00:20:33,190 civilization on this planet there is 472 00:20:37,019 --> 00:20:35,740 activity generated from this planet and 473 00:20:40,319 --> 00:20:37,029 on this planet 474 00:20:42,329 --> 00:20:40,329 really explains a lot of the UFO 475 00:20:44,369 --> 00:20:42,339 activity and and I believe there's a lot 476 00:20:46,919 --> 00:20:44,379 more I think you can point to a lot more 477 00:20:49,289 --> 00:20:46,929 evidence for this than you can ET 478 00:20:51,059 --> 00:20:49,299 visitation how do you say a lot more 479 00:20:52,999 --> 00:20:51,069 evidence Walter well when you look 480 00:20:56,069 --> 00:20:53,009 through ancient history and particularly 481 00:20:58,469 --> 00:20:56,079 minoo there's the couple of writers that 482 00:20:59,879 --> 00:20:58,479 really you know back up what I'm saying 483 00:21:02,459 --> 00:20:59,889 that that actually is where I learned 484 00:21:04,549 --> 00:21:02,469 about a lot of this were of course going 485 00:21:07,499 --> 00:21:04,559 back to Jacques fellows work and and 486 00:21:08,939 --> 00:21:07,509 mike-mike mots stuff you know he's been 487 00:21:12,029 --> 00:21:08,949 talking about this for years and he's 488 00:21:13,889 --> 00:21:12,039 really compiled all the ancient history 489 00:21:15,779 --> 00:21:13,899 you know throughout ancient history 490 00:21:17,609 --> 00:21:15,789 we've had these stories of you know in 491 00:21:20,399 --> 00:21:17,619 some cases they call them the gods and 492 00:21:22,109 --> 00:21:20,409 in other cases the the fairy folk and 493 00:21:25,529 --> 00:21:22,119 there's just always been this presence 494 00:21:28,259 --> 00:21:25,539 throughout history of these hidden races 495 00:21:31,619 --> 00:21:28,269 and it's just kind of funny how in our 496 00:21:34,409 --> 00:21:31,629 era you know the last 50 years 60 years 497 00:21:36,869 --> 00:21:34,419 the era of Roswell we've mostly wanted 498 00:21:38,789 --> 00:21:36,879 to push that aside and insist you know 499 00:21:41,009 --> 00:21:38,799 that it's all coming from other planets 500 00:21:43,559 --> 00:21:41,019 when actually we have thousands of years 501 00:21:45,059 --> 00:21:43,569 of history stating where it comes from 502 00:21:46,499 --> 00:21:45,069 that you know it came from this planet 503 00:21:49,229 --> 00:21:46,509 and that it comes from underground and 504 00:21:51,299 --> 00:21:49,239 yet we've only had about you know a half 505 00:21:54,089 --> 00:21:51,309 a century or a hundred years of of 506 00:21:56,159 --> 00:21:54,099 serious it all comes from ETI I think 507 00:21:57,269 --> 00:21:56,169 the history outweighs the ancient 508 00:22:00,869 --> 00:21:57,279 history in the past history outweighs 509 00:22:02,399 --> 00:22:00,879 the recent BT hypothesis as only answer 510 00:22:04,499 --> 00:22:02,409 you know 100 fold 511 00:22:06,269 --> 00:22:04,509 so basically hundreds of years ago and 512 00:22:09,059 --> 00:22:06,279 anyone who could pick up on this if we 513 00:22:11,459 --> 00:22:09,069 had strange visitors or strange airships 514 00:22:17,369 --> 00:22:11,469 we'd always think they were from here we 515 00:22:19,079 --> 00:22:17,379 never think et well I can say a couple 516 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:19,089 of things about it if you want me to 517 00:22:24,479 --> 00:22:21,369 please Alan that would be Alan you know 518 00:22:27,299 --> 00:22:24,489 so that people know first of all I think 519 00:22:29,429 --> 00:22:27,309 that it's worth while before we get past 520 00:22:32,759 --> 00:22:29,439 Richard shaver to point out that 521 00:22:36,539 --> 00:22:32,769 ultimately he Hort and as far as chamber 522 00:22:40,589 --> 00:22:36,549 was concerned was extraterrestrial gyro 523 00:22:43,309 --> 00:22:40,599 and hero according to Syrian lore a 524 00:22:46,120 --> 00:22:43,319 shaver projected that they were 525 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:46,130 degenerate descendants 526 00:22:52,850 --> 00:22:48,570 extraterrestrials from deep space who 527 00:22:57,560 --> 00:22:52,860 left the earth long ago because our Sun 528 00:23:01,250 --> 00:22:57,570 became an a source of aging in life and 529 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:01,260 norton's who never come near any Sun 530 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:03,450 other races the Titans and Athens 531 00:23:09,530 --> 00:23:05,730 specifically left the earth leaving the 532 00:23:13,340 --> 00:23:09,540 surface to us hominids and the interior 533 00:23:15,500 --> 00:23:13,350 of the earth to these degenerate beings 534 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:15,510 who have access to really advanced 535 00:23:20,030 --> 00:23:18,570 technology I say this without any belief 536 00:23:23,570 --> 00:23:20,040 one way or the other about it I just 537 00:23:25,580 --> 00:23:23,580 find the extra-terrestrial notion and 538 00:23:27,890 --> 00:23:25,590 we'll call it notion not theory or 539 00:23:30,230 --> 00:23:27,900 hypothesis because there's absolutely 540 00:23:33,020 --> 00:23:30,240 it's not preponderance of evidence 541 00:23:33,650 --> 00:23:33,030 there's absolutely no evidence of 542 00:23:37,580 --> 00:23:33,660 anything 543 00:23:40,850 --> 00:23:37,590 throughout history coming here from out 544 00:23:43,220 --> 00:23:40,860 there per se from Sirius or anywhere 545 00:23:46,340 --> 00:23:43,230 else even if one has some speculations 546 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:46,350 in that direction they're seen here or 547 00:23:50,450 --> 00:23:48,690 near here while hovering above here 548 00:23:53,540 --> 00:23:50,460 they're not seen anywhere else 549 00:23:56,270 --> 00:23:53,550 I wonder why just going back to the 550 00:23:58,460 --> 00:23:56,280 beginnings of geology why the first 551 00:24:00,020 --> 00:23:58,470 thing that would occur to people would 552 00:24:00,830 --> 00:24:00,030 be that they came here from other 553 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:00,840 planets 554 00:24:06,230 --> 00:24:03,090 of course the earlier eras they came 555 00:24:08,690 --> 00:24:06,240 here from heaven or hell or the 556 00:24:11,300 --> 00:24:08,700 automatic response depends on the 557 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:11,310 culture of the times now the phenomena 558 00:24:17,260 --> 00:24:14,850 may play to that but I'm pretty sure 559 00:24:21,170 --> 00:24:17,270 that whether it does or does not 560 00:24:24,470 --> 00:24:21,180 nevertheless the situation is that we 561 00:24:27,230 --> 00:24:24,480 take this phenomena in our own cultural 562 00:24:31,250 --> 00:24:27,240 terms and of course at the beginning of 563 00:24:33,620 --> 00:24:31,260 the post-world War 2 era when rocket 564 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:33,630 rocketry was becoming known and the 565 00:24:39,650 --> 00:24:36,570 notion of spaceflight was beginning to 566 00:24:43,100 --> 00:24:39,660 be heard that was what occurred to 567 00:24:45,950 --> 00:24:43,110 people rather than angels or demons or 568 00:24:48,590 --> 00:24:45,960 the little people or whatever even 569 00:24:51,170 --> 00:24:48,600 though the phenomena has such stripped 570 00:24:53,660 --> 00:24:51,180 of any interpretation is pretty much the 571 00:24:55,550 --> 00:24:53,670 same throughout recorded history and 572 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:55,560 probably judging from certain gate 573 00:25:00,330 --> 00:24:56,650 paintings 574 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:00,340 history doesn't doesn't wash it's a it's 575 00:25:03,780 --> 00:25:02,290 a projection do you mind if I if I 576 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:03,790 interject something here sir oh my god 577 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:06,010 yeah Alan is testing some interesting 578 00:25:10,980 --> 00:25:08,170 points in when he comes to shave her 579 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:10,990 shavers of course she comes under a lot 580 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:12,490 of fire because he spent time in a 581 00:25:16,770 --> 00:25:14,530 mental institution but of course you 582 00:25:18,150 --> 00:25:16,780 know what event what personal event may 583 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:18,160 have actually finished him to that point 584 00:25:21,870 --> 00:25:20,530 you know people don't go there they just 585 00:25:24,270 --> 00:25:21,880 want to ridicule the man because he was 586 00:25:25,980 --> 00:25:24,280 in an institution for a few months he 587 00:25:27,270 --> 00:25:25,990 broke old fishing he was fascinated that 588 00:25:28,950 --> 00:25:27,280 pole fishing but he came from a family 589 00:25:30,780 --> 00:25:28,960 of riders his brother wrote the boy's 590 00:25:33,540 --> 00:25:30,790 life you know he always wanted to be the 591 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:33,550 rider but thinking about shaper in it 592 00:25:37,140 --> 00:25:35,170 comes across in his riding more like 593 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:37,150 Allan the same he talked about the 594 00:25:42,060 --> 00:25:39,730 aplans and the Titans leaving the earth 595 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:42,070 because of the dangerous the dangers of 596 00:25:46,380 --> 00:25:44,410 the Sun they're degenerate descendants 597 00:25:48,540 --> 00:25:46,390 who may or may not be partially human or 598 00:25:50,490 --> 00:25:48,550 or certain for him and at one point you 599 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:50,500 know went beneath the earth once it 600 00:25:53,700 --> 00:25:52,330 couldn't make it onto the ships you know 601 00:25:56,250 --> 00:25:53,710 they they they wanted no space for 602 00:25:57,900 --> 00:25:56,260 everybody and so they over time they did 603 00:25:59,040 --> 00:25:57,910 you know related because I am assuming 604 00:26:00,990 --> 00:25:59,050 because of radiation in the earth 605 00:26:02,730 --> 00:26:01,000 because it's very radioactive I mean 606 00:26:04,350 --> 00:26:02,740 you're constantly in the in the earth 607 00:26:05,940 --> 00:26:04,360 means they worry about radon in your 608 00:26:08,370 --> 00:26:05,950 home can you imagine the very case you 609 00:26:10,710 --> 00:26:08,380 know so you know he had this idea that 610 00:26:12,120 --> 00:26:10,720 they had left but he was kind of 611 00:26:14,340 --> 00:26:12,130 confused on the point of whether they 612 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:14,350 were originally from far away or if they 613 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:16,450 simply became a spacefaring race he was 614 00:26:19,260 --> 00:26:17,650 billed back to forth in fiction in 615 00:26:21,060 --> 00:26:19,270 particular after whether they were from 616 00:26:22,710 --> 00:26:21,070 somewhere else or a thing from here and 617 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:22,720 they developed the technology and the 618 00:26:27,450 --> 00:26:25,930 and the vehicles and everything else in 619 00:26:29,370 --> 00:26:27,460 order to read the planet and the 620 00:26:30,990 --> 00:26:29,380 interesting thing about this is that you 621 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:31,000 know you'll find parallels to this in a 622 00:26:34,470 --> 00:26:32,290 lot of ancient traditions you know 623 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:34,480 whether it's the Indian the Nagas and 624 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:37,090 there's a mana flying craft or whether 625 00:26:42,180 --> 00:26:39,850 it there's such a writing or whether 626 00:26:44,940 --> 00:26:42,190 it's the Nephilim from the Hebrew 627 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:44,950 tradition and the Sumerian tradition you 628 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:47,770 know they basically were fallen angel 629 00:26:50,430 --> 00:26:48,730 certificate even before 630 00:26:53,700 --> 00:26:50,440 criminal informant and intermarried with 631 00:26:56,070 --> 00:26:53,710 human women and had children who were 632 00:26:58,440 --> 00:26:56,080 hybrid offspring and you know what's the 633 00:27:00,510 --> 00:26:58,450 wrath of God fell they they also were 634 00:27:03,540 --> 00:27:00,520 either in prison or fled under the earth 635 00:27:05,220 --> 00:27:03,550 and this is an archetype that exist on 636 00:27:08,250 --> 00:27:05,230 every culture and I don't know how she 637 00:27:09,490 --> 00:27:08,260 ever picked up on that because there's 638 00:27:12,310 --> 00:27:09,500 so many things in his 639 00:27:14,380 --> 00:27:12,320 or in the 70 says it's nonfiction there 640 00:27:15,580 --> 00:27:14,390 are title but there are title to the 641 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:15,590 degree that it was taken in the 642 00:27:19,419 --> 00:27:17,210 tremendous amount of study on this part 643 00:27:22,510 --> 00:27:19,429 to uncover some of the things that he 644 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:22,520 put in there and you know when you look 645 00:27:26,980 --> 00:27:24,770 at UFOs like I wanna say you know the 646 00:27:28,930 --> 00:27:26,990 action is here the actions here on earth 647 00:27:31,210 --> 00:27:28,940 is where all the genetic stuff yes this 648 00:27:34,299 --> 00:27:31,220 is world of value yes do you have these 649 00:27:35,710 --> 00:27:34,309 this suppose a concern with nuclear 650 00:27:37,630 --> 00:27:35,720 testing well if they live here they're 651 00:27:39,010 --> 00:27:37,640 gonna be a little worried about that you 652 00:27:40,990 --> 00:27:39,020 know you have people claiming they see 653 00:27:43,120 --> 00:27:41,000 these beings testing the soil and taking 654 00:27:45,490 --> 00:27:43,130 plant samples of stuff well you know 655 00:27:47,500 --> 00:27:45,500 again maybe they want to gauge what 656 00:27:49,930 --> 00:27:47,510 we're doing to the surface environment 657 00:27:53,590 --> 00:27:49,940 that they see as before essentially 658 00:27:56,289 --> 00:27:53,600 where garden but on top of that UFOs are 659 00:27:57,460 --> 00:27:56,299 seen in the vicinity of the earth of 660 00:27:59,380 --> 00:27:57,470 course you know the things are this 661 00:28:00,789 --> 00:27:59,390 thing crawling around the moon and there 662 00:28:02,890 --> 00:28:00,799 may be you know possible indications 663 00:28:04,270 --> 00:28:02,900 like like the Russian nah sound like 664 00:28:05,860 --> 00:28:04,280 that disappear close to Mars when 665 00:28:07,210 --> 00:28:05,870 getting power of a large crafter there's 666 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:07,220 a video of that and I've got of 667 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:08,090 something where I don't know where I 668 00:28:13,180 --> 00:28:10,730 have it but anyway the thing about that 669 00:28:15,610 --> 00:28:13,190 is if you have an ancient civilization 670 00:28:18,970 --> 00:28:15,620 that originated here here we are we are 671 00:28:20,620 --> 00:28:18,980 50 years into the idea the serious idea 672 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:20,630 of spaceflight and by the way I believe 673 00:28:25,360 --> 00:28:23,690 that a lot of this UFO the ETH is 674 00:28:27,220 --> 00:28:25,370 influenced by some early science fiction 675 00:28:29,590 --> 00:28:27,230 I believe go back to Jules Verne you 676 00:28:31,870 --> 00:28:29,600 know from the earth to the moon or even 677 00:28:34,299 --> 00:28:31,880 to the Percival Lowell as canals on Mars 678 00:28:36,399 --> 00:28:34,309 or Edgar Rice Burroughs Martian stuff I 679 00:28:37,649 --> 00:28:36,409 believe that has a huge influence or a 680 00:28:40,029 --> 00:28:37,659 lot of people who know where ETH 681 00:28:42,039 --> 00:28:40,039 proponents whether they want to admit it 682 00:28:43,899 --> 00:28:42,049 or not but you know if we're already 683 00:28:45,279 --> 00:28:43,909 trying to fling ourselves into the void 684 00:28:47,770 --> 00:28:45,289 we're already trying to reach out to 685 00:28:49,299 --> 00:28:47,780 other planets we're sending probes we 686 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:49,309 were talking about you know terraforming 687 00:28:53,890 --> 00:28:51,770 Mars and all this other stuff who's to 688 00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:53,900 say that a previous civilization that 689 00:28:58,240 --> 00:28:56,090 menaced and by whatever or diminishing 690 00:29:00,669 --> 00:28:58,250 or its genetic bottleneck or whatever 691 00:29:02,110 --> 00:29:00,679 the problem is who's to say that in 692 00:29:04,659 --> 00:29:02,120 their heyday you know when they were in 693 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:04,669 their prime they just like shavers topic 694 00:29:10,299 --> 00:29:07,370 tightens and that lands that they didn't 695 00:29:12,220 --> 00:29:10,309 originated here branch out to the 696 00:29:15,580 --> 00:29:12,230 surrounding environment whether it's our 697 00:29:18,820 --> 00:29:15,590 Moon or Mars or anything using some of 698 00:29:20,919 --> 00:29:18,830 the strange moves like a isn't it active 699 00:29:21,690 --> 00:29:20,929 which has some priests anomalous 700 00:29:24,130 --> 00:29:21,700 structures 701 00:29:26,020 --> 00:29:24,140 associating with it you know there are 702 00:29:27,430 --> 00:29:26,030 some things that indicate that these 703 00:29:29,590 --> 00:29:27,440 structures are very very ancient 704 00:29:32,020 --> 00:29:29,600 something cataclysmic happened in the 705 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:32,030 solar system and that may be part of 706 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:34,850 this whole thing of the Sun changing 707 00:29:44,980 --> 00:29:37,850 it's becoming more deadly to to living 708 00:29:49,660 --> 00:29:47,340 [Music] 709 00:29:51,940 --> 00:29:49,670 picture this you're on the phone with a 710 00:29:54,910 --> 00:29:51,950 client or colleague trying to explain 711 00:29:57,340 --> 00:29:54,920 something visual a PowerPoint keynote 712 00:30:00,010 --> 00:29:57,350 presentation a website but it's 713 00:30:02,020 --> 00:30:00,020 frustrating because they can't see what 714 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:02,030 you're talking about the solution good 715 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:04,730 news they can if you invite them to an 716 00:30:10,690 --> 00:30:08,330 online meeting using GoToMeeting then 717 00:30:13,180 --> 00:30:10,700 they can see your computer desktop on 718 00:30:14,830 --> 00:30:13,190 their computer screen so you can show 719 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:14,840 them what you're talking about 720 00:30:18,190 --> 00:30:16,490 by use GoToMeeting all the time to 721 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:18,200 collaborate with colleagues and with 722 00:30:24,220 --> 00:30:20,810 clients you can try goto meeting free 723 00:30:27,340 --> 00:30:24,230 for 30 days but you must visit goto 724 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:27,350 meeting slashed podcasts let's go to 725 00:30:42,690 --> 00:30:31,010 meeting.com slash podcasts for free 726 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:45,820 we have Walter Bosley William Michael 727 00:30:50,590 --> 00:30:48,410 Mott T Allen Greenfield McClellan 728 00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:50,600 Christopher O'Brien is co-host this week 729 00:30:55,270 --> 00:30:53,330 Christopher in your exploration of the 730 00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:55,280 mysteries of Creek stirs what kind of 731 00:30:59,860 --> 00:30:56,810 evidence did you see that might indicate 732 00:31:03,280 --> 00:30:59,870 the earth-based phenomenon here well I 733 00:31:05,260 --> 00:31:03,290 first I want to welcome our guests this 734 00:31:08,470 --> 00:31:05,270 a fascinating topic I've always had an 735 00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:08,480 interest for many years in alternative 736 00:31:14,650 --> 00:31:11,330 theories to the ETH and I and Alan I 737 00:31:16,180 --> 00:31:14,660 love your pointing out that the ETH is 738 00:31:18,610 --> 00:31:16,190 way not an accurate term I think I've 739 00:31:21,670 --> 00:31:18,620 come up with a new on the the ETA the 740 00:31:25,510 --> 00:31:21,680 extra-terrestrial assumption I think 741 00:31:28,300 --> 00:31:25,520 would by be okay as accurate as many of 742 00:31:31,690 --> 00:31:28,310 the listeners know I do not conform to 743 00:31:33,010 --> 00:31:31,700 your standard FIFA logical assumption of 744 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:33,020 thinking that we're being visited from 745 00:31:37,660 --> 00:31:36,170 from out there I do think that we owe it 746 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:37,670 to ourselves to exhaust all closed 747 00:31:41,890 --> 00:31:40,090 system explanations before we get 748 00:31:43,150 --> 00:31:41,900 human-centric enough to think that we're 749 00:31:46,060 --> 00:31:43,160 important enough for anything out there 750 00:31:47,740 --> 00:31:46,070 to come here and visit us I have always 751 00:31:51,940 --> 00:31:47,750 as I said had an interest in this 752 00:31:54,700 --> 00:31:51,950 particular angle and I want to commend 753 00:31:57,830 --> 00:31:54,710 Michael Mott on his observation that 754 00:32:00,080 --> 00:31:57,840 that all cultures going 755 00:32:03,279 --> 00:32:00,090 into probably prehistory have a 756 00:32:06,140 --> 00:32:03,289 tradition or some form of folklore or 757 00:32:08,870 --> 00:32:06,150 stories that relate to underground 758 00:32:12,140 --> 00:32:08,880 dwellers and he did point out the Nagas 759 00:32:15,649 --> 00:32:12,150 for instance and Tibet pollute King on 760 00:32:18,710 --> 00:32:15,659 the Hopi tradition the Cherokee chasing 761 00:32:20,330 --> 00:32:18,720 out a moonface people who were the 762 00:32:23,169 --> 00:32:20,340 according to them the mound builders and 763 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:23,179 then went back underground into caverns 764 00:32:27,890 --> 00:32:26,490 the examples are just everywhere that 765 00:32:29,779 --> 00:32:27,900 you look and if you do some research 766 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:29,789 you'll find this obviously 767 00:32:34,279 --> 00:32:31,770 scientifically there's some problems 768 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:34,289 with a subterranean theory and that's 769 00:32:40,070 --> 00:32:36,330 one area that I would like to get into 770 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:40,080 is is looking at some of the problems 771 00:32:44,779 --> 00:32:42,570 the physical problems that would be 772 00:32:48,019 --> 00:32:44,789 inherent in actually having some sort of 773 00:32:50,389 --> 00:32:48,029 subterranean civilization the whole idea 774 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:50,399 that shaver came up with with the the 775 00:32:56,659 --> 00:32:52,890 fact that radiation was detrimental to 776 00:32:59,000 --> 00:32:56,669 the detrimental robot sanity rose.i I 777 00:33:01,279 --> 00:32:59,010 find that very interesting and and I 778 00:33:04,130 --> 00:33:01,289 think Michaels point about you know 779 00:33:07,070 --> 00:33:04,140 possibly returning species coming back 780 00:33:09,470 --> 00:33:07,080 to the nest so to speak how do we know 781 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:09,480 that dinosaurs didn't evolve I mean 782 00:33:14,180 --> 00:33:11,610 dinosaurs were around for geez how many 783 00:33:16,580 --> 00:33:14,190 300 million years almost or 200 million 784 00:33:17,810 --> 00:33:16,590 years and possibly a million years 785 00:33:20,450 --> 00:33:17,820 before the Cretaceous they could have 786 00:33:22,490 --> 00:33:20,460 become sentient and spacefaring and left 787 00:33:25,549 --> 00:33:22,500 the planet knowing that there was going 788 00:33:27,260 --> 00:33:25,559 to be a you know catastrophic you know 789 00:33:29,090 --> 00:33:27,270 event like the end of the Cretaceous so 790 00:33:30,799 --> 00:33:29,100 I mean these are all elements that 791 00:33:32,899 --> 00:33:30,809 you're Sidhu rank-and-file true believer 792 00:33:34,850 --> 00:33:32,909 being programmed by pop culture to 793 00:33:36,590 --> 00:33:34,860 believe that all these crafts and and 794 00:33:38,510 --> 00:33:36,600 these strange events that are being 795 00:33:42,159 --> 00:33:38,520 reported are are coming from off-planet 796 00:33:44,149 --> 00:33:42,169 and and I I really am quite pleased that 797 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:44,159 finally I think we're seeing a 798 00:33:49,370 --> 00:33:47,490 resurgence of rational creative thinking 799 00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:49,380 when it comes to all in this particular 800 00:33:55,100 --> 00:33:52,770 subject and and the alternative theories 801 00:33:58,820 --> 00:33:55,110 and views that are out there Mike Levin 802 00:34:00,860 --> 00:33:58,830 you were attracted as the artist for the 803 00:34:02,810 --> 00:34:00,870 book the crypto terrestrials by the late 804 00:34:04,730 --> 00:34:02,820 Mac Tony's how are you attracted to his 805 00:34:06,409 --> 00:34:04,740 ideas what inspired you to come up with 806 00:34:08,379 --> 00:34:06,419 those illustration I first I was 807 00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:08,389 attracted to Mac Tony's I heard him 808 00:34:13,089 --> 00:34:11,210 on the Tim banal audio podcast and that 809 00:34:14,349 --> 00:34:13,099 would have been in oh seven it was a 810 00:34:16,839 --> 00:34:14,359 very interesting reaction 811 00:34:18,729 --> 00:34:16,849 he talked mostly about the Mars book 812 00:34:21,039 --> 00:34:18,739 they worked on as well as his crypto 813 00:34:23,649 --> 00:34:21,049 Terrestrial book which was very much in 814 00:34:25,059 --> 00:34:23,659 its infancy at that point and I just 815 00:34:26,950 --> 00:34:25,069 remember feeling the sense of I got to 816 00:34:28,180 --> 00:34:26,960 talk to this guy and I literally 817 00:34:30,190 --> 00:34:28,190 searched him out and called him up on 818 00:34:32,019 --> 00:34:30,200 the phone out of the blue and we struck 819 00:34:34,029 --> 00:34:32,029 up quite a nice friendship I have never 820 00:34:36,039 --> 00:34:34,039 met the guy and I that that's one of the 821 00:34:37,779 --> 00:34:36,049 what's the sad things it would be a sad 822 00:34:38,979 --> 00:34:37,789 part of my life forever knowing that I 823 00:34:41,019 --> 00:34:38,989 never had just meet him but I do 824 00:34:43,539 --> 00:34:41,029 consider him I did consider him quite a 825 00:34:45,279 --> 00:34:43,549 good friend as far as just talking with 826 00:34:47,619 --> 00:34:45,289 him we had a lot of late-night phone 827 00:34:48,879 --> 00:34:47,629 conversations and and we talked a lot 828 00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:48,889 about the book I offered to do the 829 00:34:55,180 --> 00:34:51,970 illustrations and he quickly agreed and 830 00:34:56,919 --> 00:34:55,190 the book as it was in its Genesis I sent 831 00:34:57,999 --> 00:34:56,929 we were sending the illustrations back 832 00:34:59,559 --> 00:34:58,009 and forth a little bit and he was 833 00:35:00,759 --> 00:34:59,569 delightful to work with anything I would 834 00:35:03,130 --> 00:35:00,769 do he would just go great great 835 00:35:05,289 --> 00:35:03,140 wonderful and we both talked a lot about 836 00:35:07,509 --> 00:35:05,299 our Krum we were both big are chrome 837 00:35:08,739 --> 00:35:07,519 fans I purposely did the interior I did 838 00:35:10,569 --> 00:35:08,749 not do the cover and someone else did 839 00:35:12,430 --> 00:35:10,579 the cover but on the chapter headers 840 00:35:14,319 --> 00:35:12,440 those illustrations I purposely tried to 841 00:35:15,759 --> 00:35:14,329 do in a sort of an R crumb style and 842 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:15,769 people have been avoiding using the term 843 00:35:20,019 --> 00:35:18,170 ETH the extra-terrestrial hypothesis and 844 00:35:21,249 --> 00:35:20,029 Mac was completely content with it so 845 00:35:23,470 --> 00:35:21,259 I'll just run with that and I'll be 846 00:35:25,930 --> 00:35:23,480 content with it too he did not dismiss 847 00:35:28,210 --> 00:35:25,940 the ETH hypothesis out of hand he very 848 00:35:33,249 --> 00:35:28,220 much considered that it may be a part of 849 00:35:36,819 --> 00:35:33,259 this whole mysterious realm it but you 850 00:35:38,289 --> 00:35:36,829 know to dismiss it as either/or he I 851 00:35:41,049 --> 00:35:38,299 think he was very eager to include it 852 00:35:43,299 --> 00:35:41,059 somehow as both and it's at least in his 853 00:35:45,549 --> 00:35:43,309 thought process and he was quite open 854 00:35:47,620 --> 00:35:45,559 about saying that his whole book in his 855 00:35:50,319 --> 00:35:47,630 Hall as ideas were just a um Oh a 856 00:35:53,859 --> 00:35:50,329 thought experiment if nothing else he 857 00:35:55,420 --> 00:35:53,869 was so gifted at speculating he would he 858 00:35:57,069 --> 00:35:55,430 would he was very clear when he was 859 00:35:59,019 --> 00:35:57,079 speculating and he loved the game of 860 00:36:02,049 --> 00:35:59,029 speculating so this is this is I'm 861 00:36:03,249 --> 00:36:02,059 enjoying this greatly because the act of 862 00:36:03,789 --> 00:36:03,259 speculating and this kind of thing is 863 00:36:05,499 --> 00:36:03,799 wonderful 864 00:36:09,130 --> 00:36:05,509 Alan earlier talked about the fact that 865 00:36:11,470 --> 00:36:09,140 you know we just somehow assumed after 866 00:36:14,079 --> 00:36:11,480 World War two that these these 867 00:36:16,089 --> 00:36:14,089 visitations these sightings these craft 868 00:36:17,079 --> 00:36:16,099 in the sky were were we just made the 869 00:36:18,839 --> 00:36:17,089 assumption that they were from outer 870 00:36:20,310 --> 00:36:18,849 space 871 00:36:21,900 --> 00:36:20,320 and I think the same way we would have 872 00:36:25,079 --> 00:36:21,910 made the assumption if we had seen 873 00:36:28,260 --> 00:36:25,089 something in 13th century Rome that they 874 00:36:30,660 --> 00:36:28,270 were from you know demons or angels and 875 00:36:32,820 --> 00:36:30,670 it's interesting only now like there's a 876 00:36:34,740 --> 00:36:32,830 frontier that exists the same way that 877 00:36:36,660 --> 00:36:34,750 space was a frontier at one point 878 00:36:38,790 --> 00:36:36,670 there's a frontier right now in there in 879 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:38,800 the realm of new sciences and they were 880 00:36:42,750 --> 00:36:41,050 almost like multi-dimensional and I'm 881 00:36:44,250 --> 00:36:42,760 not a physicist so I will pretend to try 882 00:36:46,500 --> 00:36:44,260 to define what that means but in the 883 00:36:49,380 --> 00:36:46,510 realm of dark matter and and 884 00:36:53,690 --> 00:36:49,390 multi-dimensional ideas and and what was 885 00:36:56,250 --> 00:36:53,700 just a few decades ago in the realm of 886 00:36:58,170 --> 00:36:56,260 science fiction is now being addressed 887 00:37:00,329 --> 00:36:58,180 quite openly in the scientific 888 00:37:04,230 --> 00:37:00,339 literature and mack followed that stuff 889 00:37:05,940 --> 00:37:04,240 very closely and so I'm wondering 890 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:05,950 whether they will start presenting 891 00:37:11,550 --> 00:37:09,130 themselves to be multi-dimensional in in 892 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:11,560 more overt ways now that we have this 893 00:37:15,510 --> 00:37:13,810 new frontier at our at our doorstep 894 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:15,520 something a science that really didn't 895 00:37:21,420 --> 00:37:18,490 exist just a generation ago so you say 896 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:21,430 basically Mike that it's reflective the 897 00:37:26,460 --> 00:37:24,010 phenomena is reflective of what our 898 00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:26,470 society expects of them well very much 899 00:37:29,550 --> 00:37:28,210 so I mean the airship sightings that 900 00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:29,560 took place over a hundred years ago 901 00:37:36,300 --> 00:37:32,650 we're where the people who stepped off 902 00:37:38,790 --> 00:37:36,310 those craft were bearded men in dirty 903 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:38,800 work clothes you know in essence you 904 00:37:43,260 --> 00:37:40,450 know working with a steam engine that's 905 00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:43,270 inside the craft somehow and you know 906 00:37:48,150 --> 00:37:45,490 presently in our present day science 907 00:37:50,540 --> 00:37:48,160 we're at the forefront of genetic 908 00:37:52,470 --> 00:37:50,550 manipulation we're at the forefront of 909 00:37:57,510 --> 00:37:52,480 artificial intelligence were at the 910 00:37:59,730 --> 00:37:57,520 forefront of virtual reality and all 911 00:38:03,990 --> 00:37:59,740 these things are being projected and 912 00:38:05,460 --> 00:38:04,000 somehow being reported by oftentimes by 913 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:05,470 the people that claim the abduction 914 00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:07,810 phenomena they are reporting things that 915 00:38:12,170 --> 00:38:09,490 are just the forefront of our science 916 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:12,180 going back to the Betty Hill abduction 917 00:38:17,700 --> 00:38:16,330 she talked about getting a medical 918 00:38:19,890 --> 00:38:17,710 procedure where something was inserted 919 00:38:22,140 --> 00:38:19,900 in her navel and it was just a short 920 00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:22,150 time after that less than a decade where 921 00:38:27,930 --> 00:38:25,170 that became a reality as a form of 922 00:38:28,410 --> 00:38:27,940 pregnancy test alan greenfield you had a 923 00:38:31,660 --> 00:38:28,420 comment 924 00:38:34,359 --> 00:38:31,670 well yeah although all these ideas 925 00:38:37,299 --> 00:38:34,369 keep bouncing around in my head number 926 00:38:40,180 --> 00:38:37,309 one I've come up with my term the 927 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:40,190 extra-terrestrial speculation I'll go 928 00:38:49,030 --> 00:38:42,890 for that as a legitimate speculation 929 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:49,040 okay so 70s my wedding yes the ETS not 930 00:38:54,789 --> 00:38:51,770 the ETH it doesn't have any special 931 00:38:57,849 --> 00:38:54,799 evidence for it but it doesn't have any 932 00:39:02,650 --> 00:38:57,859 special evidence against it unless one 933 00:39:06,539 --> 00:39:02,660 argues that the similarity of bipeds of 934 00:39:10,059 --> 00:39:06,549 walking around would be unlikely and the 935 00:39:14,620 --> 00:39:10,069 problems involved in traveling from one 936 00:39:17,620 --> 00:39:14,630 solar system to another etc etc unless 937 00:39:19,809 --> 00:39:17,630 you go into that sort of thing to say 938 00:39:20,890 --> 00:39:19,819 that it's quote impossible which I 939 00:39:23,710 --> 00:39:20,900 reject out of hand 940 00:39:25,450 --> 00:39:23,720 it's a speculation no more no less I 941 00:39:27,700 --> 00:39:25,460 find it interesting that it's the first 942 00:39:32,740 --> 00:39:27,710 thing that people grabbed for you don't 943 00:39:36,069 --> 00:39:32,750 have to go back to the 1300s to to to 944 00:39:39,450 --> 00:39:36,079 find other interpretations of we used to 945 00:39:42,930 --> 00:39:39,460 talk a lot about the early 20th century 946 00:39:48,309 --> 00:39:42,940 apparition of the Virgin Mary and a UFO 947 00:39:50,500 --> 00:39:48,319 at Fatima and employ'd Portugal and that 948 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:50,510 was interpreted as the Virgin Mary and 949 00:39:54,609 --> 00:39:52,970 the Sun coming down out of the sky well 950 00:39:56,950 --> 00:39:54,619 of course if the Sun had come down out 951 00:39:59,970 --> 00:39:56,960 of the sky we wouldn't be having this 952 00:40:03,760 --> 00:39:59,980 conversation so I assume maybe we would 953 00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:03,770 but that would be was seized upon by 954 00:40:10,420 --> 00:40:06,290 ufologists at one time for C there were 955 00:40:12,730 --> 00:40:10,430 earlier UFO cases but again what is more 956 00:40:15,039 --> 00:40:12,740 valid about the speculation that it was 957 00:40:17,289 --> 00:40:15,049 the Virgin Mary and it was an apparition 958 00:40:21,910 --> 00:40:17,299 of the Sun coming down out of the sky 959 00:40:25,750 --> 00:40:21,920 then to say these are beings from Sirius 960 00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:25,760 a planet around Sirius C they're they're 961 00:40:31,420 --> 00:40:28,970 of equal measure because they're both 962 00:40:34,990 --> 00:40:31,430 speculations I wanted to say something 963 00:40:37,690 --> 00:40:35,000 about before we completely move away 964 00:40:40,780 --> 00:40:37,700 from talking about shaver and the Inner 965 00:40:43,260 --> 00:40:40,790 Earth theory high for the reasons that 966 00:40:47,470 --> 00:40:43,270 would be obvious anyone who 967 00:40:51,130 --> 00:40:47,480 knows about NASA and the nature of the 968 00:40:55,060 --> 00:40:51,140 earth and so forth the likelihood that 969 00:40:55,810 --> 00:40:55,070 the earth is hollow is somewhere near 970 00:41:00,940 --> 00:40:55,820 zero 971 00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:00,950 that I don't know for absolute certain 972 00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:03,410 because I've seen too many things change 973 00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:06,530 in my lifetime so far and wouldn't be 974 00:41:12,849 --> 00:41:08,930 surprised to see more as time goes on 975 00:41:15,099 --> 00:41:12,859 but the earth is unlikely to be hollow 976 00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:15,109 in the way that shaver looked at it and 977 00:41:19,570 --> 00:41:18,530 that is not my my opinion at all caves 978 00:41:23,980 --> 00:41:19,580 are another matter 979 00:41:26,140 --> 00:41:23,990 I used to long I feel some somewhat 980 00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:26,150 guilty about this I used to identify to 981 00:41:32,980 --> 00:41:30,170 people places that I knew that there 982 00:41:36,310 --> 00:41:32,990 were caverns that people had entered and 983 00:41:38,410 --> 00:41:36,320 it had experiences not dissimilar to 984 00:41:41,740 --> 00:41:38,420 shaver shaver by the way reported the 985 00:41:43,990 --> 00:41:41,750 same thing but what I am I don't do that 986 00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:44,000 anymore because all of these very crazy 987 00:41:47,770 --> 00:41:45,890 amateur people who don't really know 988 00:41:49,450 --> 00:41:47,780 what they're doing are so eager to know 989 00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:49,460 where these locations are so they can 990 00:41:52,089 --> 00:41:50,770 jump down a cave and get themselves 991 00:41:54,940 --> 00:41:52,099 killed 992 00:41:58,630 --> 00:41:54,950 like there's that tragedy in the mine 993 00:42:00,609 --> 00:41:58,640 and in West Virginia so recently I don't 994 00:42:04,390 --> 00:42:00,619 tell people where these locations are 995 00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:04,400 because there are a lot of idiots brave 996 00:42:09,310 --> 00:42:07,490 idiots out there but one thing that I've 997 00:42:11,589 --> 00:42:09,320 noticed from the accounts that I've 998 00:42:13,780 --> 00:42:11,599 heard over a very very long period of 999 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:13,790 time that is consistent is there is 1000 00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:18,010 something about these cavern entrances 1001 00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:20,810 that suggests they are something more 1002 00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:24,050 like a Stargate than they're like an 1003 00:42:29,740 --> 00:42:26,810 entrance to the Inner Earth through a 1004 00:42:33,849 --> 00:42:29,750 certain point they are either old mines 1005 00:42:37,210 --> 00:42:33,859 or caves or natural configurations and 1006 00:42:39,370 --> 00:42:37,220 then what people report is this sort of 1007 00:42:41,650 --> 00:42:39,380 stargate phenomenon I'm not even sure 1008 00:42:44,109 --> 00:42:41,660 that the whole Stargate Universe wasn't 1009 00:42:47,140 --> 00:42:44,119 influenced as science fiction wasn't 1010 00:42:49,079 --> 00:42:47,150 influenced by the experience you feel 1011 00:42:51,390 --> 00:42:49,089 like you're going through this 1012 00:42:53,909 --> 00:42:51,400 Tunnel very similar to near-death 1013 00:42:55,949 --> 00:42:53,919 experiences and then you are in other 1014 00:42:57,899 --> 00:42:55,959 where highlight if you think should we 1015 00:43:00,209 --> 00:42:57,909 see in the movie Stargate that where 1016 00:43:03,269 --> 00:43:00,219 they go the transformation where they go 1017 00:43:05,669 --> 00:43:03,279 to the Pegasus galaxy right exactly 1018 00:43:08,009 --> 00:43:05,679 or you can look at it in that way or you 1019 00:43:11,130 --> 00:43:08,019 can go back to the the original series 1020 00:43:13,499 --> 00:43:11,140 the time tunnel which Stargate the TV 1021 00:43:16,919 --> 00:43:13,509 series is sort of based on where you're 1022 00:43:19,279 --> 00:43:16,929 going through time or space time or to 1023 00:43:21,659 --> 00:43:19,289 some other dimensional configuration 1024 00:43:24,209 --> 00:43:21,669 altogether I don't think most of the 1025 00:43:26,189 --> 00:43:24,219 people it's certainly not any of the 1026 00:43:28,919 --> 00:43:26,199 people that I've talked to who have had 1027 00:43:32,069 --> 00:43:28,929 that experience are certain where this 1028 00:43:34,469 --> 00:43:32,079 other where is that that is in space and 1029 00:43:38,009 --> 00:43:34,479 time but we do have some clues one of 1030 00:43:40,169 --> 00:43:38,019 them was just alluded to in the 89th of 1031 00:43:43,709 --> 00:43:40,179 an airship cases now one hundred and one 1032 00:43:46,979 --> 00:43:43,719 hundred thirteen years ago they look 1033 00:43:49,949 --> 00:43:46,989 very much like what one would 1034 00:43:52,140 --> 00:43:49,959 realistically expect only about ten or 1035 00:43:52,919 --> 00:43:52,150 fifteen years too soon if you look at 1036 00:44:00,179 --> 00:43:52,929 the 18th 1037 00:44:04,559 --> 00:44:00,189 Conan Jane's all the world's aircraft or 1038 00:44:07,679 --> 00:44:04,569 tin 1896 97 Wendy's these alleged cases 1039 00:44:10,769 --> 00:44:07,689 took place and lesser known are during 1040 00:44:16,169 --> 00:44:10,779 that same period in in Northern Europe a 1041 00:44:18,630 --> 00:44:16,179 lot of aeroplanes were seen and they had 1042 00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:18,640 the configuration of the spirit of st. 1043 00:44:26,609 --> 00:44:24,130 Louis 1920's style single wing aircraft 1044 00:44:28,829 --> 00:44:26,619 now as I may interrupt a second what 1045 00:44:31,769 --> 00:44:28,839 you're suggesting here is that what we 1046 00:44:34,049 --> 00:44:31,779 see this phenomenon seems to predict the 1047 00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:34,059 reality or is the reality itself may be 1048 00:44:38,509 --> 00:44:36,729 being influenced by what we see I think 1049 00:44:43,069 --> 00:44:38,519 some of both actually 1050 00:44:47,939 --> 00:44:43,079 certainly we interpret according to our 1051 00:44:53,579 --> 00:44:47,949 own culture and time and so forth but I 1052 00:44:56,740 --> 00:44:53,589 think I think the UFO phenomena tend to 1053 00:44:59,890 --> 00:44:56,750 be outside of space-time 1054 00:45:02,050 --> 00:44:59,900 as we normally understand it in origin 1055 00:45:04,390 --> 00:45:02,060 origin is the right word there either 1056 00:45:05,830 --> 00:45:04,400 you get it gets very complex when you're 1057 00:45:09,310 --> 00:45:05,840 not talking about things that are inside 1058 00:45:11,590 --> 00:45:09,320 space-time and they may be from other 1059 00:45:15,070 --> 00:45:11,600 planets and in the universe that we know 1060 00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:15,080 from other dimensions and other planets 1061 00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:17,690 the same planet in slightly different 1062 00:45:23,050 --> 00:45:20,690 form the future the past the future 1063 00:45:25,060 --> 00:45:23,060 becoming the past the past becoming the 1064 00:45:28,900 --> 00:45:25,070 future I suspect that it's all these 1065 00:45:31,450 --> 00:45:28,910 things because we have a very very slim 1066 00:45:33,850 --> 00:45:31,460 sliver of reality that we are part of 1067 00:45:35,110 --> 00:45:33,860 and we call that space-time and that's 1068 00:45:38,020 --> 00:45:35,120 the way we need to go to treat our 1069 00:45:39,820 --> 00:45:38,030 day-to-day existence and that's how we 1070 00:45:42,790 --> 00:45:39,830 get across the street hopefully without 1071 00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:42,800 getting hit by a truck Walter I just 1072 00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:45,890 wanted to throw in here both Mike and 1073 00:45:51,490 --> 00:45:48,770 well Chris started off then Mike carried 1074 00:45:54,430 --> 00:45:51,500 it now Alan and the interdimensional 1075 00:45:57,970 --> 00:45:54,440 aspect is something that I personally 1076 00:46:01,390 --> 00:45:57,980 began to see in all this and embrace 1077 00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:01,400 about 15 years ago and it was about 13 1078 00:46:04,660 --> 00:46:03,170 years ago I remember distinctly you 1079 00:46:06,070 --> 00:46:04,670 usually do remember these things when 1080 00:46:08,650 --> 00:46:06,080 you you know you have kind of a Eureka 1081 00:46:10,540 --> 00:46:08,660 moment it's around 1997 when I was 1082 00:46:13,630 --> 00:46:10,550 assigned to a wright-patterson Air Force 1083 00:46:17,530 --> 00:46:13,640 Base of all places you know I was 1084 00:46:20,350 --> 00:46:17,540 thinking that wow perhaps the big secret 1085 00:46:23,590 --> 00:46:20,360 here is so much that there's life on 1086 00:46:25,750 --> 00:46:23,600 other worlds I begin to wonder and I'm 1087 00:46:27,130 --> 00:46:25,760 not this is ideas not original with me 1088 00:46:30,460 --> 00:46:27,140 I'm just sharing with you the first time 1089 00:46:33,460 --> 00:46:30,470 it came to me maybe the idea of the 1090 00:46:35,410 --> 00:46:33,470 whole ET hypothesis or assumption has 1091 00:46:38,170 --> 00:46:35,420 been part of the cover for 1092 00:46:39,940 --> 00:46:38,180 interdimensional or time travelers that 1093 00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:39,950 that's something we we also have to 1094 00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:42,410 consider very specifically within the 1095 00:46:47,110 --> 00:46:44,170 realm the spectrum of interdimensional 1096 00:46:49,270 --> 00:46:47,120 ideas is that what Allen was just saying 1097 00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:49,280 absolutely right the airships kind of 1098 00:46:53,140 --> 00:46:51,170 just a few years before these things 1099 00:46:57,600 --> 00:46:53,150 actually came to be it could very well 1100 00:47:00,340 --> 00:46:57,610 be that these are time travelers and 1101 00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:00,350 they definitely are coming to kind of 1102 00:47:06,430 --> 00:47:04,010 motivate us and seed our ideas and and 1103 00:47:07,970 --> 00:47:06,440 maybe it's much easier for people to 1104 00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:07,980 embrace the idea that you 1105 00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:09,810 oh yeah yeah we come from Venus we come 1106 00:47:15,170 --> 00:47:11,570 from Mars we come from Zeta Reticuli 1107 00:47:18,620 --> 00:47:15,180 because actually the idea of coming from 1108 00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:18,630 another time is just so beyond the grasp 1109 00:47:23,450 --> 00:47:21,330 the practical grasp of many people even 1110 00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:23,460 today there's a lot of people that would 1111 00:47:27,470 --> 00:47:25,410 be very much qualified to be in this 1112 00:47:30,260 --> 00:47:27,480 conversation that there's anybody that 1113 00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:30,270 would still say oh no no not time travel 1114 00:47:35,270 --> 00:47:32,850 but I personally my experiences I'd lead 1115 00:47:39,870 --> 00:47:35,280 towards the interdimensional and very 1116 00:47:47,900 --> 00:47:39,880 much the time travel idea 1117 00:47:50,720 --> 00:47:47,910 [Music] 1118 00:47:52,819 --> 00:47:50,730 fate magazine provides true reports of 1119 00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:52,829 the strange and unknown keep up with the 1120 00:47:58,549 --> 00:47:55,410 latest on angels and miracles psychic 1121 00:47:59,660 --> 00:47:58,559 phenomena ghosts UFOs life after death 1122 00:48:01,910 --> 00:47:59,670 and much much more 1123 00:48:04,549 --> 00:48:01,920 to receive your free issue of faith 1124 00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:04,559 magazine call now but one eight hundred 1125 00:48:12,079 --> 00:48:08,490 seven two eight two seven three zero or 1126 00:48:14,990 --> 00:48:12,089 visit their website at WWF eight mag 1127 00:48:22,779 --> 00:48:15,000 calm that's one eight hundred seven two 1128 00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:22,789 eight twenty seven thirty or wwf/e EMA 1129 00:48:27,810 --> 00:48:26,490 g.com what are you waiting for your fate 1130 00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:27,820 awaits 1131 00:48:50,690 --> 00:49:00,890 [Music] 1132 00:49:05,970 --> 00:49:03,720 we have Walter Bosley William Michael 1133 00:49:08,430 --> 00:49:05,980 Mont Alan Greenfield McClellan our 1134 00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:08,440 co-host is Christopher O'Brien Walter 1135 00:49:12,570 --> 00:49:10,330 of course the science fiction movies 1136 00:49:14,700 --> 00:49:12,580 talk of a time paradox you go back in 1137 00:49:17,970 --> 00:49:14,710 time you changed something 1138 00:49:19,620 --> 00:49:17,980 therefore it affects the future or maybe 1139 00:49:21,300 --> 00:49:19,630 it was meant to be in the first place so 1140 00:49:23,820 --> 00:49:21,310 how do you deal with that I think you 1141 00:49:26,460 --> 00:49:23,830 don't worry about it as much as the 1142 00:49:28,980 --> 00:49:26,470 movies and popular culture would have us 1143 00:49:31,530 --> 00:49:28,990 worry about that they tend to I think 1144 00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:31,540 the origin of such since we're talking 1145 00:49:36,090 --> 00:49:33,370 about you know the the pop culture 1146 00:49:36,660 --> 00:49:36,100 aspect a lot of the origins of that come 1147 00:49:38,850 --> 00:49:36,670 from 1148 00:49:42,060 --> 00:49:38,860 you know thinkers with an agenda that is 1149 00:49:44,970 --> 00:49:42,070 really anti-technology you know 1150 00:49:47,610 --> 00:49:44,980 humanity's a bad bad thing and if you've 1151 00:49:50,700 --> 00:49:47,620 heard me you know on other places I am 1152 00:49:52,410 --> 00:49:50,710 NOT a human apologist we've beaten 1153 00:49:53,910 --> 00:49:52,420 ourselves about the head and ears long 1154 00:49:55,980 --> 00:49:53,920 enough it's time to be a little more 1155 00:49:58,170 --> 00:49:55,990 balanced and stop that crap I think it's 1156 00:50:00,780 --> 00:49:58,180 done I think those who are doing it 1157 00:50:03,330 --> 00:50:00,790 they've obviously figured out a protocol 1158 00:50:04,890 --> 00:50:03,340 I think allowing those who encounter 1159 00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:04,900 them to believe they're from another 1160 00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:08,770 world and not appearing on command and 1161 00:50:16,290 --> 00:50:11,530 being so elusive is part of that 1162 00:50:18,930 --> 00:50:16,300 protocol to not influence too much but I 1163 00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:18,940 don't think they worry about it so much 1164 00:50:22,770 --> 00:50:20,530 that they don't do it and you know what 1165 00:50:25,770 --> 00:50:22,780 I would agree with that I it is not 1166 00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:25,780 immoral at all to time travel 1167 00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:28,330 not at all you know just be responsible 1168 00:50:34,380 --> 00:50:31,570 about it and you know go forth you know 1169 00:50:36,860 --> 00:50:34,390 that's that's my personal philosophy the 1170 00:50:38,940 --> 00:50:36,870 futures not for the faint of heart 1171 00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:38,950 some of the things that Walter said to 1172 00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:40,090 you go ahead Michael 1173 00:50:44,970 --> 00:50:42,610 yeah Walter has efficiency points in 1174 00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:44,980 terms of time travel in and alan had 1175 00:50:49,410 --> 00:50:46,690 mentioned something about the portals 1176 00:50:51,930 --> 00:50:49,420 and of course and this is something I do 1177 00:50:53,250 --> 00:50:51,940 touch opponent in my book but there 1178 00:50:55,770 --> 00:50:53,260 seems to be something that indicates 1179 00:50:58,410 --> 00:50:55,780 that there's at least a matter 1180 00:51:01,260 --> 00:50:58,420 associating some of these things if they 1181 00:51:03,330 --> 00:51:01,270 don't belong or they come too quickly 1182 00:51:04,059 --> 00:51:03,340 eat you our environment they're either 1183 00:51:06,069 --> 00:51:04,069 to dance 1184 00:51:08,019 --> 00:51:06,079 they're not dense enough they have 1185 00:51:10,539 --> 00:51:08,029 problems breathing or else when they're 1186 00:51:12,910 --> 00:51:10,549 counted by human being who reacts in a 1187 00:51:15,759 --> 00:51:12,920 self defensive manner they seem to be 1188 00:51:20,109 --> 00:51:15,769 extremely compact and extremely dense 1189 00:51:23,499 --> 00:51:20,119 and you know things like hidden shovel 1190 00:51:25,630 --> 00:51:23,509 like a guy in the Puerto Rico did or or 1191 00:51:27,849 --> 00:51:25,640 you know doing these types of things 1192 00:51:31,029 --> 00:51:27,859 bullets like get with the Kelly gallops 1193 00:51:32,650 --> 00:51:31,039 I mean they know how much affect them 1194 00:51:36,309 --> 00:51:32,660 it's as if they're a part of another 1195 00:51:39,069 --> 00:51:36,319 reality but I say this in regard to the 1196 00:51:40,089 --> 00:51:39,079 particular portal if they come from 1197 00:51:44,140 --> 00:51:40,099 other part of the electromagnetic 1198 00:51:45,279 --> 00:51:44,150 spectrum that in no way state would 1199 00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:45,289 indicate that they come from another 1200 00:51:47,499 --> 00:51:45,890 planet 1201 00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:47,509 we're only indicate that they would come 1202 00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:50,690 from somewhere else within the density 1203 00:51:57,880 --> 00:51:54,170 of our own planet here and my the only 1204 00:52:00,549 --> 00:51:57,890 problem I have with this is that as the 1205 00:52:02,890 --> 00:52:00,559 earth moves it's a solar system it's we 1206 00:52:04,180 --> 00:52:02,900 and our whole new realm of questions 1207 00:52:06,699 --> 00:52:04,190 here that we really don't have any 1208 00:52:08,469 --> 00:52:06,709 answers for for instance you know we do 1209 00:52:10,569 --> 00:52:08,479 we carry our space-time bubble with us 1210 00:52:12,309 --> 00:52:10,579 so that our entire history is intact or 1211 00:52:15,130 --> 00:52:12,319 do we trail it behind us as we go around 1212 00:52:16,559 --> 00:52:15,140 the center of the galaxy the things like 1213 00:52:19,209 --> 00:52:16,569 that would have to be in some way 1214 00:52:21,009 --> 00:52:19,219 calibrated for in order to make time 1215 00:52:22,870 --> 00:52:21,019 travel feasible otherwise you would go 1216 00:52:24,910 --> 00:52:22,880 back in time and you would end up where 1217 00:52:26,910 --> 00:52:24,920 the earth was you know 12,000 years ago 1218 00:52:29,949 --> 00:52:26,920 instead of where it is today 1219 00:52:32,949 --> 00:52:29,959 that makes it but yeah I guess you get 1220 00:52:34,900 --> 00:52:32,959 Justin I'm saying that if there are 1221 00:52:36,189 --> 00:52:34,910 portals and you know there's some 1222 00:52:38,499 --> 00:52:36,199 indication that there's some sort of 1223 00:52:41,079 --> 00:52:38,509 density thing here would you travel from 1224 00:52:43,630 --> 00:52:41,089 one density to another and and that 1225 00:52:47,019 --> 00:52:43,640 could be he'll talk about with his uh 1226 00:52:49,509 --> 00:52:47,029 with his his idea of traveling along the 1227 00:52:50,109 --> 00:52:49,519 spectrum visible light and in reality 1228 00:52:52,599 --> 00:52:50,119 itself 1229 00:52:55,180 --> 00:52:52,609 you know the electromagnetic spectrum if 1230 00:52:56,589 --> 00:52:55,190 there are portals in these caves or in 1231 00:52:59,799 --> 00:52:56,599 some regions a hunk of the earth that 1232 00:53:01,630 --> 00:52:59,809 are a natural a natural manifestation 1233 00:53:03,579 --> 00:53:01,640 has to do with the the electromagnetic 1234 00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:03,589 field here then that would explain a lot 1235 00:53:08,949 --> 00:53:06,650 of this they'll explain all over the why 1236 00:53:10,749 --> 00:53:08,959 that's only certain areas where you have 1237 00:53:12,759 --> 00:53:10,759 window areas what do you think like a 1238 00:53:14,529 --> 00:53:12,769 San Luis Valley what do you have in 1239 00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:14,539 areas where they're they're much more 1240 00:53:17,300 --> 00:53:15,210 there 1241 00:53:20,540 --> 00:53:17,310 more geomagnetic anomalies accentuated 1242 00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:20,550 with some of these things and again it 1243 00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:22,410 may be the airs like that would lend 1244 00:53:25,910 --> 00:53:24,690 themselves better to find level they 1245 00:53:28,670 --> 00:53:25,920 would lend themselves better to do 1246 00:53:31,310 --> 00:53:28,680 traveling along that spectrum to come to 1247 00:53:34,070 --> 00:53:31,320 our reality and when you think about the 1248 00:53:36,290 --> 00:53:34,080 legends of humanity you know you have 1249 00:53:38,270 --> 00:53:36,300 folklore all over the world and it's the 1250 00:53:39,829 --> 00:53:38,280 equivalent of missing time well you had 1251 00:53:41,180 --> 00:53:39,839 the fairy lore world where people in 1252 00:53:43,099 --> 00:53:41,190 origin where they accidentally stumble 1253 00:53:44,390 --> 00:53:43,109 with a ferry landing that's all for what 1254 00:53:46,730 --> 00:53:44,400 they think the three days and they come 1255 00:53:50,109 --> 00:53:46,740 back in 50 years from an illegal thing 1256 00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:50,119 or else they they are golf or up just 1257 00:53:54,140 --> 00:53:52,170 for a very long time and they come back 1258 00:53:55,220 --> 00:53:54,150 and they're old and everybody else is 1259 00:53:57,230 --> 00:53:55,230 still just about the same as they were 1260 00:53:59,270 --> 00:53:57,240 when they're left and this might 1261 00:54:01,760 --> 00:53:59,280 indicate you know the some sort of a 1262 00:54:03,230 --> 00:54:01,770 paradox that has to do with time and 1263 00:54:06,530 --> 00:54:03,240 with density in with in with the 1264 00:54:08,180 --> 00:54:06,540 electromagnetic spectrum I think that 1265 00:54:11,060 --> 00:54:08,190 we've got to start looking at these 1266 00:54:15,109 --> 00:54:11,070 things some more as a manifestation of 1267 00:54:16,370 --> 00:54:15,119 our planet and I know that that or you 1268 00:54:18,020 --> 00:54:16,380 know if you were taking that if you're 1269 00:54:19,820 --> 00:54:18,030 technologically advanced society to 1270 00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:19,830 speed here from 4,000 for millions of 1271 00:54:24,140 --> 00:54:22,290 years you would learn the intricacies of 1272 00:54:25,700 --> 00:54:24,150 your own planet you want to learn you 1273 00:54:27,470 --> 00:54:25,710 know how to move along these conduits of 1274 00:54:30,470 --> 00:54:27,480 reality that are associated with the 1275 00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:30,480 place where you live it's uh it seems to 1276 00:54:34,339 --> 00:54:33,450 me that what chris said earlier this is 1277 00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:34,349 something you know of course I have them 1278 00:54:39,530 --> 00:54:36,810 on bo2 with about reptilian humanoids 1279 00:54:41,270 --> 00:54:39,540 about you know the dinosaur gene all 1280 00:54:42,380 --> 00:54:41,280 developing the humanoid form that 1281 00:54:43,820 --> 00:54:42,390 officials in that's a minute 1282 00:54:46,370 --> 00:54:43,830 maybe they mission without the planet 1283 00:54:47,359 --> 00:54:46,380 and solar returning when they see it's 1284 00:54:50,870 --> 00:54:47,369 just their property because they were 1285 00:54:53,630 --> 00:54:50,880 here first or maybe also they discovered 1286 00:54:55,540 --> 00:54:53,640 these conduits through the continuum but 1287 00:54:58,040 --> 00:54:55,550 they're all localized to our planet and 1288 00:54:59,780 --> 00:54:58,050 you know it just seems to me that to 1289 00:55:01,579 --> 00:54:59,790 jump to any conclusion about the vehicle 1290 00:55:03,650 --> 00:55:01,589 far away it's just that it's jumping to 1291 00:55:05,420 --> 00:55:03,660 a conclusion and it doesn't really fall 1292 00:55:08,359 --> 00:55:05,430 off this all comes razor and you know 1293 00:55:09,770 --> 00:55:08,369 William talking basically stated that no 1294 00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:09,780 matter how absurd that might seem that 1295 00:55:13,849 --> 00:55:11,490 the simplest answer is usually the 1296 00:55:15,410 --> 00:55:13,859 correct answer and so when you exhaust 1297 00:55:18,020 --> 00:55:15,420 all these various theories in 1298 00:55:20,030 --> 00:55:18,030 postulations are so forth the simplest 1299 00:55:24,290 --> 00:55:20,040 answer is the different here and they 1300 00:55:27,170 --> 00:55:24,300 always have been and you know you have 1301 00:55:28,670 --> 00:55:27,180 space in every folks system on this 1302 00:55:31,809 --> 00:55:28,680 planet every religious 1303 00:55:33,559 --> 00:55:31,819 about hundred world's about Hills about 1304 00:55:36,109 --> 00:55:33,569 fairyland about all these different 1305 00:55:37,730 --> 00:55:36,119 places with all associated with this 1306 00:55:40,309 --> 00:55:37,740 planet the only one that's not 1307 00:55:43,849 --> 00:55:40,319 associated with it if the transcendent 1308 00:55:45,829 --> 00:55:43,859 like hey or Nirvana that's some that 1309 00:55:50,620 --> 00:55:45,839 says okay there's a reality beyond this 1310 00:55:53,809 --> 00:55:50,630 planet but the more the meteor fleshly 1311 00:55:56,299 --> 00:55:53,819 ideas relating to this have to do with 1312 00:55:58,700 --> 00:55:56,309 the earth itself I guess that's pretty 1313 00:56:01,220 --> 00:55:58,710 much one of the show I'd like to jump in 1314 00:56:03,410 --> 00:56:01,230 and and mention something you brought up 1315 00:56:06,019 --> 00:56:03,420 the San Luis Valley in window areas this 1316 00:56:08,089 --> 00:56:06,029 is an area of a particular interest to 1317 00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:08,099 me having investigated the San Luis 1318 00:56:13,519 --> 00:56:11,130 Valley for almost twenty years now and 1319 00:56:15,349 --> 00:56:13,529 one thing that that has always struck me 1320 00:56:18,410 --> 00:56:15,359 and in some of the cases that have 1321 00:56:20,809 --> 00:56:18,420 always puzzled me the most were a whole 1322 00:56:23,839 --> 00:56:20,819 flurry of activity that happened in 66 1323 00:56:27,589 --> 00:56:23,849 to 69 where these small scoutship sized 1324 00:56:30,890 --> 00:56:27,599 objects above 12 12 feet long so we're 1325 00:56:33,019 --> 00:56:30,900 seeing entering and leaving what looks 1326 00:56:35,150 --> 00:56:33,029 like just a a mountainside and these 1327 00:56:37,099 --> 00:56:35,160 things would zip around a dive-bomb cars 1328 00:56:39,259 --> 00:56:37,109 in broad daylight and then they would be 1329 00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:39,269 observed going directly into a mountain 1330 00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:41,970 with no apparent opening this suggests 1331 00:56:48,859 --> 00:56:44,450 to me that some sort of density 1332 00:56:50,359 --> 00:56:48,869 manipulation was at work and if you do 1333 00:56:52,309 --> 00:56:50,369 some research you'll find out that there 1334 00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:52,319 are quite a number of reports of objects 1335 00:56:57,529 --> 00:56:54,210 that seem to inexplicably be able to go 1336 00:57:00,259 --> 00:56:57,539 directly into solid rock so this would 1337 00:57:02,740 --> 00:57:00,269 you know obviously suggest that we are 1338 00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:02,750 dealing with some sort of phase 1339 00:57:08,900 --> 00:57:06,450 capability in terms of density and being 1340 00:57:13,339 --> 00:57:08,910 able to manipulate and go in and out of 1341 00:57:15,799 --> 00:57:13,349 some sort of time-space phase and I've 1342 00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:15,809 always been fascinated with the whole 1343 00:57:21,499 --> 00:57:18,210 idea of window areas and portal areas 1344 00:57:24,259 --> 00:57:21,509 and lowest turi came up with an 1345 00:57:26,690 --> 00:57:24,269 interesting formula which I've kind of 1346 00:57:29,299 --> 00:57:26,700 added to over the years and that is that 1347 00:57:32,329 --> 00:57:29,309 if an area has unusual geophysical 1348 00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:32,339 properties for instance the Earth's 1349 00:57:36,559 --> 00:57:34,410 magnetic field is has minimum and in 1350 00:57:38,569 --> 00:57:36,569 maximum density and strength rather 1351 00:57:41,630 --> 00:57:38,579 field strength and close proximity to 1352 00:57:43,789 --> 00:57:41,640 one another and if you have a history 1353 00:57:46,039 --> 00:57:43,799 of sacredness in the indigenous culture 1354 00:57:47,660 --> 00:57:46,049 and a history of sighting events 1355 00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:47,670 chances are the military and the 1356 00:57:50,809 --> 00:57:48,930 government is also going to be very 1357 00:57:52,519 --> 00:57:50,819 interested in the area and has a nearby 1358 00:57:55,430 --> 00:57:52,529 presence and is trying to expand their 1359 00:57:59,109 --> 00:57:55,440 presence in most cases in these areas 1360 00:58:01,609 --> 00:57:59,119 this is a perfect formula for 1361 00:58:04,220 --> 00:58:01,619 identifying potential portal or window 1362 00:58:04,819 --> 00:58:04,230 areas and the San Luis Valley is one the 1363 00:58:07,670 --> 00:58:04,829 Sedona 1364 00:58:10,039 --> 00:58:07,680 Verde Valley area is another one they're 1365 00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:10,049 scattered around and if you do your 1366 00:58:14,839 --> 00:58:12,210 research you'll find that there is a a 1367 00:58:16,250 --> 00:58:14,849 preponderance of activity generally if 1368 00:58:18,740 --> 00:58:16,260 there's going to be any sort of sighting 1369 00:58:20,390 --> 00:58:18,750 wave in a region it's going to be 1370 00:58:22,910 --> 00:58:20,400 centered around one of these portal 1371 00:58:25,759 --> 00:58:22,920 areas another thing too I think is 1372 00:58:27,470 --> 00:58:25,769 interesting is is the at least here in 1373 00:58:29,750 --> 00:58:27,480 the southwest the tradition of the 1374 00:58:32,720 --> 00:58:29,760 Native Americans of the CEPA Puna or 1375 00:58:34,700 --> 00:58:32,730 Sipapu the place of emergence where the 1376 00:58:37,220 --> 00:58:34,710 people are led underground to be 1377 00:58:40,099 --> 00:58:37,230 protected during earth changes in the 1378 00:58:42,769 --> 00:58:40,109 case of the Hopi and Zuni it's a it's a 1379 00:58:45,500 --> 00:58:42,779 salt mine in a hole in the Little 1380 00:58:48,829 --> 00:58:45,510 Colorado River Gorge that opens up into 1381 00:58:53,180 --> 00:58:48,839 a huge subterranean city that's in close 1382 00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:53,190 proximity to Grand Canyon and again you 1383 00:58:58,339 --> 00:58:54,930 know we've stated this a couple of times 1384 00:58:59,839 --> 00:58:58,349 all through the world all around the 1385 00:59:02,660 --> 00:58:59,849 world in all different cultures going 1386 00:59:05,509 --> 00:59:02,670 back into prehistory you have very 1387 00:59:08,839 --> 00:59:05,519 similar sounding you know stories 1388 00:59:11,660 --> 00:59:08,849 legends and and belief systems and one 1389 00:59:13,579 --> 00:59:11,670 thing I want to know is in 1998 they 1390 00:59:16,249 --> 00:59:13,589 developed the capability to map the 1391 00:59:18,380 --> 00:59:16,259 Earth's crust down to a forty mile level 1392 00:59:20,150 --> 00:59:18,390 into the Earth's crust I heard that the 1393 00:59:22,249 --> 00:59:20,160 first place that they mapped was Giza 1394 00:59:24,559 --> 00:59:22,259 and the second place they mapped was the 1395 00:59:28,009 --> 00:59:24,569 ukitake on the Yucatan Peninsula which 1396 00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:28,019 is honeycombed with cenotes and 1397 00:59:32,210 --> 00:59:30,690 underground cavern systems and I'm 1398 00:59:34,279 --> 00:59:32,220 wondering who's sitting on all that data 1399 00:59:35,870 --> 00:59:34,289 and how how much of the Earth's surface 1400 00:59:37,700 --> 00:59:35,880 that they've already mapped this would 1401 00:59:39,499 --> 00:59:37,710 be a very interesting research project I 1402 00:59:41,420 --> 00:59:39,509 think for so for one of our listeners 1403 00:59:43,339 --> 00:59:41,430 out there who feels motivated you know 1404 00:59:45,079 --> 00:59:43,349 we have a great group of listeners who 1405 00:59:47,120 --> 00:59:45,089 participate actively in the message 1406 00:59:48,589 --> 00:59:47,130 boards that might be something for them 1407 00:59:50,690 --> 00:59:48,599 to research and one of our guests has 1408 00:59:51,860 --> 00:59:50,700 something to add we will find out on the 1409 00:59:53,810 --> 00:59:51,870 other side of the show 1410 00:59:56,540 --> 00:59:53,820 we have Christopher O'Brien our co-host 1411 00:59:57,320 --> 00:59:56,550 my cleland Allen Greenfield William 1412 00:59:59,450 --> 00:59:57,330 Michael Mott 1413 01:00:04,490 --> 00:59:59,460 Walter Bosley you'll hear more on the 1414 01:00:06,500 --> 01:00:04,500 other side of the power cast we want to 1415 01:00:08,750 --> 01:00:06,510 hear from you if you have a comment or 1416 01:00:11,240 --> 01:00:08,760 question about the podcast send it to 1417 01:00:14,510 --> 01:00:11,250 news at the podcast com 1418 01:00:16,430 --> 01:00:14,520 that's news at the pear cast calm and 1419 01:00:18,110 --> 01:00:16,440 don't forget to visit our forums where 1420 01:00:20,690 --> 01:00:18,120 you can talk to fellow listeners just go 1421 01:00:23,150 --> 01:00:20,700 to the pear cast calm and click on the 1422 01:00:34,100 --> 01:00:23,160 forum links that's the forum links at 1423 01:00:36,230 --> 01:00:34,110 the pear cast calm welcome back to the 1424 01:00:41,410 --> 01:00:36,240 parrot house with Jean Steinberg and 1425 01:00:45,819 --> 01:00:44,109 the co-host is Christopher O'Brien we're 1426 01:00:48,789 --> 01:00:45,829 featuring Walter Bosley William Michael 1427 01:00:51,700 --> 01:00:48,799 mud T Allan Greenfield Mike Cleland 1428 01:00:54,400 --> 01:00:51,710 now Walter I gather you have a comment 1429 01:00:55,960 --> 01:00:54,410 to amplify something about what Chris 1430 01:00:57,359 --> 01:00:55,970 said and maybe give us some really 1431 01:01:00,420 --> 01:00:57,369 interesting new information Walter 1432 01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:00,430 absolutely I am the big fan of 1433 01:01:05,380 --> 01:01:02,450 Christopher's research because he's 1434 01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:05,390 really a big chunk of what we're talking 1435 01:01:10,239 --> 01:01:07,970 about he is personally brought to light 1436 01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:10,249 just over this last weekend on Saturday 1437 01:01:14,259 --> 01:01:12,410 that there's a friend of mine a guy I've 1438 01:01:15,519 --> 01:01:14,269 known since high school and he's 1439 01:01:17,589 --> 01:01:15,529 interested in these things his name is 1440 01:01:18,940 --> 01:01:17,599 Stan Shambaugh and you're going to be 1441 01:01:21,670 --> 01:01:18,950 hearing more about him he's starting a 1442 01:01:22,870 --> 01:01:21,680 website called legend has it and what 1443 01:01:24,609 --> 01:01:22,880 he's going to do is go out and 1444 01:01:26,019 --> 01:01:24,619 investigate all sorts of strange and 1445 01:01:27,910 --> 01:01:26,029 interesting sights and present little 1446 01:01:30,420 --> 01:01:27,920 webisodes and he just did the first one 1447 01:01:33,460 --> 01:01:30,430 and he invited me to be a part of it and 1448 01:01:35,710 --> 01:01:33,470 he asked me I started remote viewing a 1449 01:01:37,870 --> 01:01:35,720 couple of years ago and for whatever 1450 01:01:39,700 --> 01:01:37,880 anybody thinks about it I was made a 1451 01:01:42,009 --> 01:01:39,710 believer because it was one of the most 1452 01:01:43,690 --> 01:01:42,019 extraordinary experiences of my life to 1453 01:01:48,069 --> 01:01:43,700 learn how to do this and to see how real 1454 01:01:49,630 --> 01:01:48,079 it is and he asked me to remote view the 1455 01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:49,640 site before I knew where we were going 1456 01:01:53,049 --> 01:01:51,410 and I did it the night before he gave me 1457 01:01:55,269 --> 01:01:53,059 a blind cue target that was a number 1458 01:01:57,370 --> 01:01:55,279 associated with the place I did a 1459 01:01:59,019 --> 01:01:57,380 viewing and then once we got out there 1460 01:02:01,720 --> 01:01:59,029 and I learned where we were going within 1461 01:02:04,120 --> 01:02:01,730 the first few minutes we found an object 1462 01:02:06,849 --> 01:02:04,130 that I had viewed and my initial viewing 1463 01:02:09,579 --> 01:02:06,859 blind viewing I walked right to it and 1464 01:02:12,759 --> 01:02:09,589 then we walked into oh by the way this 1465 01:02:15,069 --> 01:02:12,769 place is Devil's Gate Reservoir in right 1466 01:02:17,769 --> 01:02:15,079 on the border of Pasadena where JPL is 1467 01:02:20,170 --> 01:02:17,779 located and it has a history of strange 1468 01:02:22,390 --> 01:02:20,180 unexplained disappearances in fact three 1469 01:02:24,849 --> 01:02:22,400 or four children out with their parents 1470 01:02:26,200 --> 01:02:24,859 walking on trails I mean their parents 1471 01:02:28,450 --> 01:02:26,210 are looking at them they go right around 1472 01:02:31,839 --> 01:02:28,460 a corner and then they're gone they 1473 01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:31,849 disappear they drag the water they scour 1474 01:02:37,690 --> 01:02:34,970 for days the park area they find no 1475 01:02:39,099 --> 01:02:37,700 evidence whatsoever what happened to 1476 01:02:42,160 --> 01:02:39,109 these missing children this is in the 1477 01:02:44,200 --> 01:02:42,170 late 50s up to 1960 and then I did 1478 01:02:47,289 --> 01:02:44,210 anyway we go into the park a little bit 1479 01:02:50,529 --> 01:02:47,299 and I did my second viewing of something 1480 01:02:52,839 --> 01:02:50,539 he had blindly cued in an envelope and I 1481 01:02:53,770 --> 01:02:52,849 came up with what looked like a 1482 01:02:57,670 --> 01:02:53,780 descending 1483 01:02:59,110 --> 01:02:57,680 curlicue and as you can imagine my 1484 01:03:01,330 --> 01:02:59,120 ultimate conclusion I even wrote the 1485 01:03:03,430 --> 01:03:01,340 word vortex we're talking about a vortex 1486 01:03:06,820 --> 01:03:03,440 here and then I open the envelope and 1487 01:03:08,140 --> 01:03:06,830 what it was was an article on Devil's 1488 01:03:12,220 --> 01:03:08,150 Gate reservoir now I had never been 1489 01:03:14,950 --> 01:03:12,230 there before and it was it was just a 1490 01:03:16,210 --> 01:03:14,960 very interesting experience and then as 1491 01:03:18,880 --> 01:03:16,220 we walk through the park we found 1492 01:03:20,680 --> 01:03:18,890 another thing that I had viewed and I 1493 01:03:22,690 --> 01:03:20,690 came away from that I am convinced that 1494 01:03:24,460 --> 01:03:22,700 the stories you would hear about Devil's 1495 01:03:27,730 --> 01:03:24,470 Gate if you scan into this is that there 1496 01:03:29,860 --> 01:03:27,740 is indeed some type of vortex there Jack 1497 01:03:31,330 --> 01:03:29,870 Parsons was intimately familiar with the 1498 01:03:34,660 --> 01:03:31,340 park and would do a lot of things there 1499 01:03:37,390 --> 01:03:34,670 I believe he had made Aleister Crowley 1500 01:03:39,990 --> 01:03:37,400 I'm familiar with the location there at 1501 01:03:42,220 --> 01:03:40,000 least and occult scientists have been 1502 01:03:45,090 --> 01:03:42,230 fascinated with the place you know 1503 01:03:47,110 --> 01:03:45,100 according to the stories for years and 1504 01:03:49,150 --> 01:03:47,120 it's just and I was just you know 1505 01:03:51,610 --> 01:03:49,160 throwing that in because in my 1506 01:03:54,910 --> 01:03:51,620 experience in my investigations you know 1507 01:03:56,230 --> 01:03:54,920 absolutely there's the center 1508 01:03:59,500 --> 01:03:56,240 dimensional aspect there is a 1509 01:04:02,200 --> 01:03:59,510 geophysical topographical feature to 1510 01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:02,210 this that is very very important Cris I 1511 01:04:08,290 --> 01:04:04,010 think we should bring you know bad for 1512 01:04:10,920 --> 01:04:08,300 response well I agree Walter there there 1513 01:04:13,450 --> 01:04:10,930 I think there is a formula that can be 1514 01:04:15,850 --> 01:04:13,460 you know followed that will help 1515 01:04:18,540 --> 01:04:15,860 identify these these places and and 1516 01:04:20,860 --> 01:04:18,550 basically I've just by listening to your 1517 01:04:23,890 --> 01:04:20,870 account and your description of this 1518 01:04:25,990 --> 01:04:23,900 particular area I think it probably has 1519 01:04:27,310 --> 01:04:26,000 some sort of exalted history I would 1520 01:04:29,260 --> 01:04:27,320 imagine if you did some research that 1521 01:04:31,240 --> 01:04:29,270 there was something special to it some 1522 01:04:34,890 --> 01:04:31,250 special qualities ascribed to the area 1523 01:04:38,050 --> 01:04:34,900 and then the close proximity of JPL I 1524 01:04:40,510 --> 01:04:38,060 don't think is a coincidence you know 1525 01:04:43,960 --> 01:04:40,520 this is so stimulating for me because I 1526 01:04:51,130 --> 01:04:43,970 am so tired of being called alien guy oh 1527 01:04:53,740 --> 01:04:51,140 here's the guy it's just so refreshing 1528 01:04:57,220 --> 01:04:53,750 to be talking to some some some thinking 1529 01:04:59,560 --> 01:04:57,230 you know cogent people with open minds 1530 01:05:02,080 --> 01:04:59,570 that aren't aren't programmed by the the 1531 01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:02,090 media and by a lot of just bunk that's 1532 01:05:06,330 --> 01:05:03,770 out there and you know really my hats 1533 01:05:09,010 --> 01:05:06,340 off to you guys I really we need more 1534 01:05:12,070 --> 01:05:09,020 creative thinkers like we have as our 1535 01:05:15,690 --> 01:05:12,080 guests on this show here today and and I 1536 01:05:20,140 --> 01:05:15,700 really think that it's it's time for the 1537 01:05:21,700 --> 01:05:20,150 ETA is the ETS is the DHS whatever to 1538 01:05:24,010 --> 01:05:21,710 stop running roughshod and creative 1539 01:05:26,800 --> 01:05:24,020 thinking in this field because this is 1540 01:05:28,570 --> 01:05:26,810 highly complex I agree that there's 1541 01:05:30,430 --> 01:05:28,580 probably all everything is probably 1542 01:05:33,100 --> 01:05:30,440 having there's probably aliens here time 1543 01:05:36,160 --> 01:05:33,110 travelers dimensional shifters 1544 01:05:39,270 --> 01:05:36,170 we're probably inundated this is a Grand 1545 01:05:42,160 --> 01:05:39,280 Central Station for you know paranormal 1546 01:05:43,900 --> 01:05:42,170 intelligences it would seem to me that's 1547 01:05:47,020 --> 01:05:43,910 probably the safest answer I could come 1548 01:05:50,070 --> 01:05:47,030 up with just cover all my bases so but 1549 01:05:54,520 --> 01:05:50,080 but again I I do I do feel that that 1550 01:05:57,280 --> 01:05:54,530 there is something very tangible that we 1551 01:05:58,540 --> 01:05:57,290 can do as investigators especially if 1552 01:06:01,090 --> 01:05:58,550 you're out in the field and you want to 1553 01:06:03,790 --> 01:06:01,100 do field work I think there areas that 1554 01:06:05,650 --> 01:06:03,800 are window areas and it if this is true 1555 01:06:07,660 --> 01:06:05,660 then it would make sense to me that we 1556 01:06:10,060 --> 01:06:07,670 should marshal our resources can really 1557 01:06:12,700 --> 01:06:10,070 concentrate our investigative efforts in 1558 01:06:15,810 --> 01:06:12,710 these particular window areas because I 1559 01:06:18,370 --> 01:06:15,820 think we stand a much better chance of 1560 01:06:19,360 --> 01:06:18,380 gaining forward momentum and gaining 1561 01:06:22,690 --> 01:06:19,370 knowledge and gaining understanding 1562 01:06:26,290 --> 01:06:22,700 gaining hard data if we do focus on 1563 01:06:28,420 --> 01:06:26,300 areas that maybe have more activity and 1564 01:06:31,390 --> 01:06:28,430 maybe have some sort of portal Stargate 1565 01:06:33,340 --> 01:06:31,400 sort of quality to them and you know I'm 1566 01:06:37,390 --> 01:06:33,350 not discounting the whole idea of a 1567 01:06:39,570 --> 01:06:37,400 subterranean element to this I in some 1568 01:06:43,050 --> 01:06:39,580 of my investigations I interviewed a 1569 01:06:46,330 --> 01:06:43,060 Hispanic miner who helped expand the lab 1570 01:06:49,750 --> 01:06:46,340 the Los Alamos lab underground in the 1571 01:06:52,060 --> 01:06:49,760 late 40s and into the 50s and he told a 1572 01:06:53,710 --> 01:06:52,070 story to his family that was quite quite 1573 01:06:56,350 --> 01:06:53,720 amazing they broke into an ancient 1574 01:06:58,720 --> 01:06:56,360 tunnel system and they were told the 1575 01:06:59,830 --> 01:06:58,730 team was broken up they were all given 1576 01:07:01,730 --> 01:06:59,840 different assignments and they were 1577 01:07:04,310 --> 01:07:01,740 sworn to secrecy and they could 1578 01:07:06,260 --> 01:07:04,320 by the amount of mineralization that 1579 01:07:08,859 --> 01:07:06,270 this man-made tunnel was was at least 1580 01:07:11,359 --> 01:07:08,869 ten thousand years old if not older and 1581 01:07:13,430 --> 01:07:11,369 in and this is just another indication 1582 01:07:16,370 --> 01:07:13,440 that there's really something there's 1583 01:07:18,740 --> 01:07:16,380 something to this idea of cavern systems 1584 01:07:20,270 --> 01:07:18,750 and caves and you know shaver ask sort 1585 01:07:21,859 --> 01:07:20,280 of quality to this stuff and sorry for 1586 01:07:23,510 --> 01:07:21,869 going on so on how long greenfield you 1587 01:07:27,140 --> 01:07:23,520 wanted to jump in with a comment before 1588 01:07:30,290 --> 01:07:27,150 yeah I think that it's important to do 1589 01:07:33,740 --> 01:07:30,300 some of these cross-disciplinary studies 1590 01:07:37,840 --> 01:07:33,750 and the mention of Jack Parsons reminds 1591 01:07:41,720 --> 01:07:37,850 me that there are at least two kinds of 1592 01:07:46,340 --> 01:07:41,730 quote stargates I kind of wary at that 1593 01:07:48,980 --> 01:07:46,350 term but let's say transportation 1594 01:07:51,560 --> 01:07:48,990 devices to other where I don't really 1595 01:07:53,780 --> 01:07:51,570 know what term to use type number one 1596 01:07:57,020 --> 01:07:53,790 and very easily if I wanted to hide one 1597 01:08:00,380 --> 01:07:57,030 I suspect I would build a tunnel and 1598 01:08:05,740 --> 01:08:00,390 hide it in a tunnel that just so that 1599 01:08:09,109 --> 01:08:05,750 maybe the cross-disciplinary answer to 1600 01:08:12,200 --> 01:08:09,119 taking a barian view but understanding 1601 01:08:15,370 --> 01:08:12,210 that the earth is not hollow that in 1602 01:08:19,700 --> 01:08:15,380 fact some of these entrances are in 1603 01:08:22,390 --> 01:08:19,710 natural caverns or in hollowed-out areas 1604 01:08:25,910 --> 01:08:22,400 that they are there to conceal them 1605 01:08:27,499 --> 01:08:25,920 those tend to be at points on the 1606 01:08:30,019 --> 01:08:27,509 Earth's surface that are at the 1607 01:08:31,099 --> 01:08:30,029 convergence of flay lines or whatever 1608 01:08:33,980 --> 01:08:31,109 you call them on any particular 1609 01:08:36,230 --> 01:08:33,990 continent and there are lots of them the 1610 01:08:37,910 --> 01:08:36,240 same kind of a Native American legend 1611 01:08:42,070 --> 01:08:37,920 that was mentioned in the Southwest 1612 01:08:46,280 --> 01:08:42,080 exists right here in Georgia and in 1613 01:08:48,320 --> 01:08:46,290 Tallulah Gorge is the reputed home 1614 01:08:51,470 --> 01:08:48,330 according to the cherokee a-- the um we 1615 01:08:53,780 --> 01:08:51,480 come d the little people and you there 1616 01:08:55,570 --> 01:08:53,790 is and there's an entrance located there 1617 01:08:58,340 --> 01:08:55,580 I say that I don't like to identify 1618 01:09:00,280 --> 01:08:58,350 locations because of all the that's a 1619 01:09:02,930 --> 01:09:00,290 very polluted gorge is a very dangerous 1620 01:09:05,210 --> 01:09:02,940 place in and of itself let alone 1621 01:09:07,430 --> 01:09:05,220 anything you might find in a cavern 1622 01:09:09,140 --> 01:09:07,440 there but that I have mentioned in 1623 01:09:11,450 --> 01:09:09,150 prints of thousands of people have 1624 01:09:13,670 --> 01:09:11,460 already seen it some suffice to say I'm 1625 01:09:16,820 --> 01:09:13,680 looking at the exact location but 1626 01:09:20,300 --> 01:09:16,830 clearly is a an old mineshaft that 1627 01:09:22,099 --> 01:09:20,310 contains a portal and that I told you oh 1628 01:09:23,630 --> 01:09:22,109 maybe half a dozen people who have been 1629 01:09:26,539 --> 01:09:23,640 in and out of it and had all kinds of 1630 01:09:28,910 --> 01:09:26,549 peculiar experiences the other type of 1631 01:09:32,059 --> 01:09:28,920 portal seems to be the type that shows 1632 01:09:35,360 --> 01:09:32,069 up in occult circles that is in a sense 1633 01:09:36,980 --> 01:09:35,370 invoked brought into being by a 1634 01:09:41,019 --> 01:09:36,990 particular ritual and in the case of 1635 01:09:43,160 --> 01:09:41,029 Jack Parsons who was an early JPL 1636 01:09:45,019 --> 01:09:43,170 scientists I think even before was 1637 01:09:47,300 --> 01:09:45,029 called JPL and who wound up blowing 1638 01:09:51,800 --> 01:09:47,310 himself up by doing experiments with 1639 01:09:55,520 --> 01:09:51,810 rocket fuels and his his home on March 1640 01:09:58,070 --> 01:09:55,530 2nd 1946 if I'm getting today fried he 1641 01:10:00,770 --> 01:09:58,080 and a gentleman by the name of l ron 1642 01:10:06,460 --> 01:10:00,780 Hubbard who later became famous for 1643 01:10:09,920 --> 01:10:06,470 other things along with Marjorie Cameron 1644 01:10:12,050 --> 01:10:09,930 invoke over a considerable period of 1645 01:10:15,440 --> 01:10:12,060 time what became known as the babylon 1646 01:10:18,560 --> 01:10:15,450 working and in occult lore that is 1647 01:10:21,770 --> 01:10:18,570 frequently known as the opening of the 1648 01:10:25,520 --> 01:10:21,780 entrance to other where which was never 1649 01:10:27,200 --> 01:10:25,530 closed and that dates shortly before the 1650 01:10:29,570 --> 01:10:27,210 beginning of all these strange events 1651 01:10:31,760 --> 01:10:29,580 that have occurred around JPL that don't 1652 01:10:34,220 --> 01:10:31,770 have anything to do with with JPL it 1653 01:10:37,400 --> 01:10:34,230 also of course is right before the 1654 01:10:41,150 --> 01:10:37,410 modern era of flying saucers begin and 1655 01:10:42,980 --> 01:10:41,160 that has been noted by others as well so 1656 01:10:45,020 --> 01:10:42,990 they seem could be something that can be 1657 01:10:48,350 --> 01:10:45,030 constructed they seem to be something 1658 01:10:51,380 --> 01:10:48,360 that can exist naturally and they seem 1659 01:10:53,600 --> 01:10:51,390 to be something that can be in a very 1660 01:10:56,780 --> 01:10:53,610 real sense conjured up that should be of 1661 01:10:59,540 --> 01:10:56,790 the most interest because if that is 1662 01:11:01,250 --> 01:10:59,550 true well it's it's something that can 1663 01:11:02,930 --> 01:11:01,260 either be demonstrated or disconfirm 1664 01:11:04,770 --> 01:11:02,940 it's something that can be worked with 1665 01:11:06,450 --> 01:11:04,780 and I do 1666 01:11:09,089 --> 01:11:06,460 and I have my own personal opinion on 1667 01:11:11,580 --> 01:11:09,099 that but the point is reproducibility is 1668 01:11:14,069 --> 01:11:11,590 moving towards the sort of proof that we 1669 01:11:16,589 --> 01:11:14,079 would need if you can conjure up a 1670 01:11:18,870 --> 01:11:16,599 portal to other where go through it and 1671 01:11:22,020 --> 01:11:18,880 that you are accomplishing something 1672 01:11:24,510 --> 01:11:22,030 that can be objectively verified and 1673 01:11:29,189 --> 01:11:24,520 that's precisely that movement that 1674 01:11:32,990 --> 01:11:29,199 Eugene have have while Eugene has been 1675 01:11:35,669 --> 01:11:33,000 saying we're stuck in this sort of 1676 01:11:37,439 --> 01:11:35,679 revolving door situation that would be 1677 01:11:39,720 --> 01:11:37,449 the breakthrough that would be required 1678 01:11:42,990 --> 01:11:39,730 it would require the work of a number of 1679 01:11:44,939 --> 01:11:43,000 people for me to do it and I have 1680 01:11:48,209 --> 01:11:44,949 someone confirm that that was a 1681 01:11:51,529 --> 01:11:48,219 dispassionate observer it would be just 1682 01:11:53,580 --> 01:11:51,539 me saying it but if you did have 1683 01:11:56,850 --> 01:11:53,590 recording equipment and a detached 1684 01:11:59,450 --> 01:11:56,860 observer or two or three or four it 1685 01:12:03,600 --> 01:11:59,460 perhaps would be something that would 1686 01:12:05,220 --> 01:12:03,610 border on proof of entrances to other 1687 01:12:07,799 --> 01:12:05,230 where and of course that would blow all 1688 01:12:10,229 --> 01:12:07,809 theories about accepted theories about 1689 01:12:11,850 --> 01:12:10,239 reality completely out of the war one of 1690 01:12:13,770 --> 01:12:11,860 the problems I see with all this is 1691 01:12:16,830 --> 01:12:13,780 something we can maybe bring up to date 1692 01:12:19,740 --> 01:12:16,840 Alan and others is that the phenomenon 1693 01:12:21,089 --> 01:12:19,750 of course is mirroring our society so 1694 01:12:22,799 --> 01:12:21,099 we're not really seeing what's really 1695 01:12:25,740 --> 01:12:22,809 there we're seeing what we kind of 1696 01:12:28,890 --> 01:12:25,750 expect see so the question is here if we 1697 01:12:32,609 --> 01:12:28,900 have this way of travelling to this 1698 01:12:35,010 --> 01:12:32,619 elsewhere would we even know where we're 1699 01:12:38,669 --> 01:12:35,020 going or what we're seeing at the other 1700 01:12:41,100 --> 01:12:38,679 side wants to take that I'll jump okay 1701 01:12:43,200 --> 01:12:41,110 Mike I'm just gonna jump back to Mac 1702 01:12:44,669 --> 01:12:43,210 Tony's in his book and in the in the 1703 01:12:45,990 --> 01:12:44,679 things he talked about and some of the 1704 01:12:48,330 --> 01:12:46,000 things I talked about with him directly 1705 01:12:50,970 --> 01:12:48,340 he made the point that these all these 1706 01:12:52,200 --> 01:12:50,980 things are eminently testable given 1707 01:12:55,049 --> 01:12:52,210 enough resources given enough money 1708 01:12:58,229 --> 01:12:55,059 given enough time given us mind power if 1709 01:13:00,779 --> 01:12:58,239 we wanted to somehow collectively in our 1710 01:13:02,609 --> 01:13:00,789 society these things are being dismissed 1711 01:13:07,799 --> 01:13:02,619 sometimes dismissed with a lot of 1712 01:13:09,540 --> 01:13:07,809 contempt but they they are very much you 1713 01:13:12,240 --> 01:13:09,550 know something that the proper research 1714 01:13:14,520 --> 01:13:12,250 could look into now the thing that that 1715 01:13:16,920 --> 01:13:14,530 that Mac and I talked about and that he 1716 01:13:20,490 --> 01:13:16,930 talks about also is that this whole 1717 01:13:22,440 --> 01:13:20,500 has a way of of jumping out of your grip 1718 01:13:27,330 --> 01:13:22,450 as soon as you try to look at something 1719 01:13:30,450 --> 01:13:27,340 it might skip off and and and not be as 1720 01:13:33,930 --> 01:13:30,460 easy as you thought so he wrote a very 1721 01:13:37,860 --> 01:13:33,940 sweet essay about playing with a laser 1722 01:13:39,480 --> 01:13:37,870 pointer with his cat where the person 1723 01:13:41,430 --> 01:13:39,490 playing was a laser pointer can point 1724 01:13:43,260 --> 01:13:41,440 the laser pointer can point that little 1725 01:13:45,420 --> 01:13:43,270 red dot on something on the carpet and 1726 01:13:46,950 --> 01:13:45,430 the cat will think it's alive the cat 1727 01:13:49,680 --> 01:13:46,960 will look at the little dot and not 1728 01:13:51,720 --> 01:13:49,690 realize that the actual person 1729 01:13:53,820 --> 01:13:51,730 controlling the dot is well across the 1730 01:13:57,660 --> 01:13:53,830 room using a piece of technology to 1731 01:13:59,550 --> 01:13:57,670 deceive the cat and somehow that is an 1732 01:14:02,010 --> 01:13:59,560 analogy that that rings so true with 1733 01:14:05,490 --> 01:14:02,020 this whole thing that something is going 1734 01:14:08,160 --> 01:14:05,500 on which is very hard to define and all 1735 01:14:10,110 --> 01:14:08,170 of us have our own vocabulary words but 1736 01:14:14,280 --> 01:14:10,120 that thing that that's happening is 1737 01:14:15,930 --> 01:14:14,290 somehow so elusive and almost elusive on 1738 01:14:17,760 --> 01:14:15,940 purpose it's purposely c @ Racal at 1739 01:14:19,760 --> 01:14:17,770 times and then and then quite purposely 1740 01:14:22,920 --> 01:14:19,770 elusive and and jumps away from our 1741 01:14:24,300 --> 01:14:22,930 ability to perceive it properly and that 1742 01:14:25,770 --> 01:14:24,310 i think goes straight to these the 1743 01:14:28,680 --> 01:14:25,780 concept of these vortexes and these 1744 01:14:31,470 --> 01:14:28,690 portals that's almost the realm not of 1745 01:14:33,060 --> 01:14:31,480 the present day dogmatic scientist it 1746 01:14:35,910 --> 01:14:33,070 may be some day but it seems much more 1747 01:14:37,950 --> 01:14:35,920 the realm of the mystical shaman that 1748 01:14:41,100 --> 01:14:37,960 lives in a primitive village somewhere 1749 01:14:43,020 --> 01:14:41,110 where we would have to quantify it with 1750 01:14:46,490 --> 01:14:43,030 lofty terms like parallel dimension 1751 01:14:48,780 --> 01:14:46,500 where the shaman may have a much more 1752 01:14:51,150 --> 01:14:48,790 much better working knowledge though 1753 01:14:52,960 --> 01:14:51,160 that the vocabulary may not jive exactly 1754 01:15:01,979 --> 01:14:52,970 with the scientist 1755 01:15:06,010 --> 01:15:01,989 [Music] 1756 01:15:08,140 --> 01:15:06,020 is there a secret UFO agenda to strange 1757 01:15:10,630 --> 01:15:08,150 creatures from the darkest corners of 1758 01:15:13,270 --> 01:15:10,640 the mind roam the earth is there 1759 01:15:16,540 --> 01:15:13,280 evidence for mind control time travel 1760 01:15:18,400 --> 01:15:16,550 are devious government conspiracies find 1761 01:15:21,400 --> 01:15:18,410 out the inside scoop on the latest 1762 01:15:24,070 --> 01:15:21,410 conspiracies paranormal activity and at 1763 01:15:26,380 --> 01:15:24,080 14 phenomena when you subscribe to Tim 1764 01:15:29,229 --> 01:15:26,390 Beckley's conspiracy girl it's 1765 01:15:31,840 --> 01:15:29,239 jam-packed with stories special book and 1766 01:15:34,150 --> 01:15:31,850 DVD promotions and the best news is 1767 01:15:37,150 --> 01:15:34,160 absolutely free sent right to your 1768 01:15:40,660 --> 01:15:37,160 mailbox plus a bonus free email 1769 01:15:42,580 --> 01:15:40,670 newsletter sent out every Friday simply 1770 01:15:47,169 --> 01:15:42,590 send an email with your name and address 1771 01:15:51,880 --> 01:15:47,179 to mister UFO at web TV dotnet text 1772 01:16:00,880 --> 01:15:51,890 mystery UFO at web TV net find out what 1773 01:16:06,760 --> 01:16:03,970 this is the pair cast you never know 1774 01:16:10,069 --> 01:16:06,770 what's next 1775 01:16:13,189 --> 01:16:10,079 [Music] 1776 01:16:15,979 --> 01:16:13,199 we have Walter Bosley my Cleland Alan 1777 01:16:18,200 --> 01:16:15,989 Greenfield Michael Mott the co-host is 1778 01:16:20,030 --> 01:16:18,210 Christopher O'Brien Walter has a comment 1779 01:16:23,000 --> 01:16:20,040 and then Michael wants to add something 1780 01:16:24,830 --> 01:16:23,010 wrong yes I just want to bring up 1781 01:16:29,450 --> 01:16:24,840 something that's probably not going to 1782 01:16:31,010 --> 01:16:29,460 be popular among any of us but I've got 1783 01:16:33,919 --> 01:16:31,020 a book coming out I'm not going to talk 1784 01:16:36,290 --> 01:16:33,929 about it here I've I barely ever talked 1785 01:16:38,359 --> 01:16:36,300 about it publicly yet and anyway this 1786 01:16:40,879 --> 01:16:38,369 this research has really taken me down 1787 01:16:43,399 --> 01:16:40,889 some the strangest roads of my life and 1788 01:16:46,280 --> 01:16:43,409 I I want to throw out there on the 1789 01:16:47,959 --> 01:16:46,290 elusiveness of this like Mike was 1790 01:16:50,750 --> 01:16:47,969 talking about Mac and written about and 1791 01:16:53,060 --> 01:16:50,760 we've all been aware of is that the 1792 01:16:56,149 --> 01:16:53,070 farther you go back into the the studies 1793 01:16:58,549 --> 01:16:56,159 of the strange and and you know all 1794 01:17:02,870 --> 01:16:58,559 these weird things we have to remember 1795 01:17:06,140 --> 01:17:02,880 the admonition of Isis and that is tell 1796 01:17:07,910 --> 01:17:06,150 no one I think the more we want to know 1797 01:17:09,410 --> 01:17:07,920 the truth if you really want to know the 1798 01:17:13,129 --> 01:17:09,420 truth and you really want to know what's 1799 01:17:16,459 --> 01:17:13,139 going on I suspect my experience is 1800 01:17:19,520 --> 01:17:16,469 pointing to I suspect the best way to 1801 01:17:21,229 --> 01:17:19,530 learn the most is to not talk about it 1802 01:17:22,850 --> 01:17:21,239 you know not write books about it not 1803 01:17:26,030 --> 01:17:22,860 get on to speak publicly about it and 1804 01:17:29,030 --> 01:17:26,040 the source of the information the source 1805 01:17:32,270 --> 01:17:29,040 of the phenomena is more willing to open 1806 01:17:35,000 --> 01:17:32,280 itself up to you but that's not as fun 1807 01:17:37,850 --> 01:17:35,010 as speculating and talking about it and 1808 01:17:39,589 --> 01:17:37,860 in writing our books but and I'm you 1809 01:17:41,810 --> 01:17:39,599 know one of you guys who gets out there 1810 01:17:42,950 --> 01:17:41,820 publicly and does it but one thing my 1811 01:17:45,950 --> 01:17:42,960 experience is the last couple of years 1812 01:17:48,260 --> 01:17:45,960 is teaching me is you know those who 1813 01:17:49,850 --> 01:17:48,270 truly know you don't know them publicly 1814 01:17:52,879 --> 01:17:49,860 they keep it to themselves and they know 1815 01:17:54,859 --> 01:17:52,889 more sounds like what Peter core used to 1816 01:17:56,660 --> 01:17:54,869 write about anyone remember Peter core 1817 01:18:00,350 --> 01:17:56,670 here excited from myself and Ellen 1818 01:18:01,520 --> 01:18:00,360 Greenfield you don't know Allen do you 1819 01:18:04,459 --> 01:18:01,530 think we should bring up the name is 1820 01:18:08,270 --> 01:18:04,469 Peter Couri Camela right so Tom Camela 1821 01:18:09,589 --> 01:18:08,280 why not but go by his real name Tom 1822 01:18:14,419 --> 01:18:09,599 Kanawha go for it 1823 01:18:18,049 --> 01:18:14,429 okay so Allen Ramos Horta Camila was one 1824 01:18:18,950 --> 01:18:18,059 of the earliest people who postulated a 1825 01:18:22,250 --> 01:18:18,960 sort of 1826 01:18:25,760 --> 01:18:22,260 inner penetration of reality ideas 1827 01:18:29,420 --> 01:18:25,770 although he was build by Ray Palmer who 1828 01:18:32,390 --> 01:18:29,430 published a lot of his stuff as under 1829 01:18:33,860 --> 01:18:32,400 the pseudonym Peter core as the skeptic 1830 01:18:36,020 --> 01:18:33,870 in fact his column was called the 1831 01:18:38,050 --> 01:18:36,030 skeptics corner what he was a skeptic 1832 01:18:42,760 --> 01:18:38,060 about was the extra-terrestrial 1833 01:18:48,830 --> 01:18:42,770 speculation but he was not necessarily 1834 01:18:52,100 --> 01:18:48,840 against the notion that some sort of non 1835 01:18:55,700 --> 01:18:52,110 ordinary phenomenon was that the source 1836 01:18:58,550 --> 01:18:55,710 of all of the what we will call the you 1837 01:19:01,190 --> 01:18:58,560 phone mystery and a lot of other things 1838 01:19:03,530 --> 01:19:01,200 besides and he certainly had anticipated 1839 01:19:05,510 --> 01:19:03,540 and influenced my own thinking on the 1840 01:19:09,020 --> 01:19:05,520 subject which is that when we deal with 1841 01:19:10,520 --> 01:19:09,030 fairies and this is like free valet as 1842 01:19:13,400 --> 01:19:10,530 well we should point out this is what 1843 01:19:16,790 --> 01:19:13,410 early 1960s late 1950s maybe even yeah 1844 01:19:19,700 --> 01:19:16,800 that's right from Palmer's flying 1845 01:19:24,200 --> 01:19:19,710 saucers to the palmers forum those 1846 01:19:26,210 --> 01:19:24,210 places he had really novel ideas and got 1847 01:19:28,760 --> 01:19:26,220 me thinking a lot about the 1848 01:19:31,900 --> 01:19:28,770 interdisciplinary aspect of it that when 1849 01:19:35,720 --> 01:19:31,910 one is examining for example on it house 1850 01:19:38,570 --> 01:19:35,730 that is a repeater that is on it one is 1851 01:19:41,050 --> 01:19:38,580 dealing with a phenomenon that has a lot 1852 01:19:44,330 --> 01:19:41,060 of similarities to a location that is 1853 01:19:46,370 --> 01:19:44,340 saturated periodically with UFO cases or 1854 01:19:48,860 --> 01:19:46,380 that is saturated periodically with 1855 01:19:51,740 --> 01:19:48,870 Mothman cases or that is saturated with 1856 01:19:53,900 --> 01:19:51,750 men in black cases or Hall they all be 1857 01:19:57,350 --> 01:19:53,910 above that they're all part of the same 1858 01:19:58,880 --> 01:19:57,360 spectrum so and I was way way ahead of 1859 01:20:01,610 --> 01:19:58,890 his time I don't know if he's still 1860 01:20:03,590 --> 01:20:01,620 living or not that he was he was a 1861 01:20:04,129 --> 01:20:03,600 pioneer he would be slightly over the 1862 01:20:07,010 --> 01:20:04,139 other 1863 01:20:10,070 --> 01:20:07,020 near being me Tulane knew sir that he 1864 01:20:13,100 --> 01:20:10,080 must be alive and well and running laps 1865 01:20:14,209 --> 01:20:13,110 because I surely well I hope he is maybe 1866 01:20:16,580 --> 01:20:14,219 he'll get in touch with us now that 1867 01:20:18,830 --> 01:20:16,590 didn't defeat invoke his name you know 1868 01:20:22,160 --> 01:20:18,840 what I was just saying that for the 1869 01:20:26,060 --> 01:20:22,170 shame of and waste of of it is Loren 1870 01:20:29,270 --> 01:20:26,070 Coleman suggestion shortly after the 1871 01:20:31,340 --> 01:20:29,280 untimely death why are some people die 1872 01:20:33,950 --> 01:20:31,350 so young and all we hear is that they 1873 01:20:36,859 --> 01:20:33,960 passed away of natural causes quote 1874 01:20:39,649 --> 01:20:36,869 unquote ex Lauren's the two pieces of 1875 01:20:44,359 --> 01:20:39,659 information do not compute and I can 1876 01:20:47,930 --> 01:20:44,369 think of a whole host of very very 1877 01:20:50,720 --> 01:20:47,940 promising youth ologists and to youth 1878 01:20:53,120 --> 01:20:50,730 ologists and para you follow gist that 1879 01:20:56,990 --> 01:20:53,130 have gone out early 1880 01:21:01,280 --> 01:20:57,000 certainly way beyond the moment only 1881 01:21:05,020 --> 01:21:01,290 expect from the kind of typical pattern 1882 01:21:08,390 --> 01:21:05,030 that that one sees for life expectancy 1883 01:21:11,180 --> 01:21:08,400 it's the more you know the more danger 1884 01:21:14,149 --> 01:21:11,190 you're in exactly in something to the 1885 01:21:17,450 --> 01:21:14,159 notion of not looking however I'm still 1886 01:21:20,510 --> 01:21:17,460 on the if I can keep for for just thirty 1887 01:21:23,859 --> 01:21:20,520 seconds more I'm I'm still on the notion 1888 01:21:27,709 --> 01:21:23,869 that whether we're able to objectively 1889 01:21:30,350 --> 01:21:27,719 see the phenomenon as it truly is with a 1890 01:21:32,750 --> 01:21:30,360 capital T on the truly or not we still 1891 01:21:36,770 --> 01:21:32,760 have the question of are we dealing with 1892 01:21:38,840 --> 01:21:36,780 a non-ordinary phenomenon I don't 1893 01:21:43,760 --> 01:21:38,850 consider that to be a settled question 1894 01:21:46,700 --> 01:21:43,770 and if we are able to advance because to 1895 01:21:50,450 --> 01:21:46,710 the point of saying we are or are not 1896 01:21:54,020 --> 01:21:50,460 dealing with non ordinary phenomena on a 1897 01:21:57,140 --> 01:21:54,030 high evidential level or a proof level I 1898 01:21:59,600 --> 01:21:57,150 would say we've advanced we did advance 1899 01:22:02,410 --> 01:21:59,610 the knowledge of the subject a great 1900 01:22:04,910 --> 01:22:02,420 deal there whether we then go on to 1901 01:22:07,310 --> 01:22:04,920 distinguish between what's real and what 1902 01:22:09,080 --> 01:22:07,320 isn't real in some sort of objective 1903 01:22:11,030 --> 01:22:09,090 sense I'm not even sure if that's the 1904 01:22:11,860 --> 01:22:11,040 right question to have maybe it's 1905 01:22:14,410 --> 01:22:11,870 totally wrong 1906 01:22:16,600 --> 01:22:14,420 question there may not be any one 1907 01:22:18,520 --> 01:22:16,610 reality involved here when you mentioned 1908 01:22:20,730 --> 01:22:18,530 the time travel paradox maybe time 1909 01:22:24,250 --> 01:22:20,740 travel is happening all the time but 1910 01:22:26,320 --> 01:22:24,260 it's already happened because if it's 1911 01:22:29,110 --> 01:22:26,330 time travel if it's ever going to happen 1912 01:22:30,970 --> 01:22:29,120 it's already happened so the changes 1913 01:22:32,830 --> 01:22:30,980 that might have been made have already 1914 01:22:36,130 --> 01:22:32,840 been made so maybe every second of 1915 01:22:37,300 --> 01:22:36,140 seeing a change that we couldn't expect 1916 01:22:39,400 --> 01:22:37,310 Michael Mott 1917 01:22:40,900 --> 01:22:39,410 you had a comment yeah I have a key 1918 01:22:43,540 --> 01:22:40,910 because we've all known so many ideas 1919 01:22:45,040 --> 01:22:43,550 here but the last question that we had 1920 01:22:47,470 --> 01:22:45,050 mention that I was going to talk about 1921 01:22:49,780 --> 01:22:47,480 you know we talked about evidence for 1922 01:22:51,490 --> 01:22:49,790 windows think of areas and how people 1923 01:22:53,290 --> 01:22:51,500 might actually rewarded to those and I 1924 01:22:54,940 --> 01:22:53,300 know that I believe it was Chris O'Brien 1925 01:22:57,970 --> 01:22:54,950 who had something one of his books about 1926 01:22:59,890 --> 01:22:57,980 a structure somewhere in the southwest 1927 01:23:01,450 --> 01:22:59,900 where people claim that when they walk 1928 01:23:04,150 --> 01:23:01,460 through this thing or between these 1929 01:23:05,590 --> 01:23:04,160 colors or whatever it was that they came 1930 01:23:06,970 --> 01:23:05,600 out in the slightly distorted view of 1931 01:23:10,210 --> 01:23:06,980 the same reality but they were in a 1932 01:23:13,420 --> 01:23:10,220 different place and and and this has it 1933 01:23:16,720 --> 01:23:13,430 has it's Heather's antecedents in this 1934 01:23:18,280 --> 01:23:16,730 precedence boehmini ego it it goes whole 1935 01:23:20,020 --> 01:23:18,290 way back in the fall fairy lore for sure 1936 01:23:22,480 --> 01:23:20,030 you want something accidentally wanders 1937 01:23:24,970 --> 01:23:22,490 into fairyland and as it is parallels 1938 01:23:26,050 --> 01:23:24,980 and UFO literature claims it you know 1939 01:23:28,360 --> 01:23:26,060 they end up in these strange places a 1940 01:23:29,590 --> 01:23:28,370 basic or other planet but you know how 1941 01:23:31,210 --> 01:23:29,600 do we know that that's what it is it 1942 01:23:33,100 --> 01:23:31,220 could be another phase of reality that 1943 01:23:34,210 --> 01:23:33,110 that's actually been actually been 1944 01:23:37,300 --> 01:23:34,220 taking to where they've accidentally 1945 01:23:39,520 --> 01:23:37,310 stumbled into and you know when you look 1946 01:23:41,350 --> 01:23:39,530 at what Walter said about the kids 1947 01:23:43,780 --> 01:23:41,360 walking around the corner and Devil's 1948 01:23:46,930 --> 01:23:43,790 Gate is disappearing you know this is a 1949 01:23:48,700 --> 01:23:46,940 thing that occurs again and again and 1950 01:23:50,950 --> 01:23:48,710 just within the accounts of this time 1951 01:23:52,360 --> 01:23:50,960 and these things are documented quite 1952 01:23:54,250 --> 01:23:52,370 often and sometimes they pass under the 1953 01:23:56,920 --> 01:23:54,260 folklore and I guess the most famous 1954 01:23:58,960 --> 01:23:56,930 example would be the Pied Piper I am who 1955 01:24:01,420 --> 01:23:58,970 obviously you know he came into Kentucky 1956 01:24:03,970 --> 01:24:01,430 to hold a huge amount of the number of 1957 01:24:05,650 --> 01:24:03,980 children and he took them specifically 1958 01:24:06,730 --> 01:24:05,660 into the side of the mountain and the 1959 01:24:08,770 --> 01:24:06,740 mountain was sealed up and they were 1960 01:24:10,000 --> 01:24:08,780 gone I'll people you know that's just a 1961 01:24:12,190 --> 01:24:10,010 fairy tale well you know according to 1962 01:24:14,830 --> 01:24:12,200 the tradition of that town and to some 1963 01:24:16,570 --> 01:24:14,840 historical account something happens 1964 01:24:18,460 --> 01:24:16,580 that that tradition is based on that 1965 01:24:20,590 --> 01:24:18,470 that story comes from you start talking 1966 01:24:22,390 --> 01:24:20,600 about the dangers you know Chris was 1967 01:24:25,240 --> 01:24:22,400 talking about no way 1968 01:24:27,340 --> 01:24:25,250 going to first - you know Google Nesta 1969 01:24:28,149 --> 01:24:27,350 gate a specific area and then Alison 1970 01:24:29,860 --> 01:24:28,159 well you know I don't want to take 1971 01:24:32,320 --> 01:24:29,870 people tell them where a certain area is 1972 01:24:34,990 --> 01:24:32,330 because the dangers but even more than 1973 01:24:36,970 --> 01:24:35,000 that if people don't Gordy's I think if 1974 01:24:37,720 --> 01:24:36,980 they go to some of these places for 1975 01:24:39,880 --> 01:24:37,730 amusement 1976 01:24:42,520 --> 01:24:39,890 they might might find something that's 1977 01:24:45,010 --> 01:24:42,530 so amazing and I think that that the 1978 01:24:45,580 --> 01:24:45,020 evidence of differently can't ride bear 1979 01:24:48,040 --> 01:24:45,590 that out 1980 01:24:50,229 --> 01:24:48,050 like the internal Demark Marco the 1981 01:24:52,270 --> 01:24:50,239 extreme the blowing cave where he was 1982 01:24:55,479 --> 01:24:52,280 suddenly swarmed by Yellow Jackets and 1983 01:24:56,620 --> 01:24:55,489 Kindle you know these things you know 1984 01:24:58,930 --> 01:24:56,630 will let you all so that's just a 1985 01:25:02,560 --> 01:24:58,940 coincidence well you know it happens 1986 01:25:04,390 --> 01:25:02,570 again and again and so will you take I 1987 01:25:06,939 --> 01:25:04,400 guess what you would call newbies into 1988 01:25:09,010 --> 01:25:06,949 this type of stuff and you think excited 1989 01:25:10,330 --> 01:25:09,020 may want to go explore and there's no 1990 01:25:12,070 --> 01:25:10,340 telling what they might really find 1991 01:25:14,380 --> 01:25:12,080 themselves in the middle lobby one of 1992 01:25:15,100 --> 01:25:14,390 the things that comes to mind is episode 1993 01:25:17,470 --> 01:25:15,110 of ghost hunters 1994 01:25:18,910 --> 01:25:17,480 I you know I respect those guys and I'm 1995 01:25:20,800 --> 01:25:18,920 glad to using all that cool equipment 1996 01:25:21,330 --> 01:25:20,810 everything but more than the spirit 1997 01:25:24,610 --> 01:25:21,340 world 1998 01:25:26,800 --> 01:25:24,620 possibly a is it not possible that they 1999 01:25:28,810 --> 01:25:26,810 could be picking up transmissions from 2000 01:25:30,010 --> 01:25:28,820 somewhere else on the spectrum and it's 2001 01:25:32,860 --> 01:25:30,020 not just the spirit world 2002 01:25:35,290 --> 01:25:32,870 it's another phase and Chris would say 2003 01:25:37,930 --> 01:25:35,300 and I remember the episode where they 2004 01:25:41,110 --> 01:25:37,940 went to uh they went to Ireland and they 2005 01:25:44,620 --> 01:25:41,120 were they were using their their heat 2006 01:25:45,880 --> 01:25:44,630 sensitive stuff to view their finding 2007 01:25:48,610 --> 01:25:45,890 their guys or three other guys we're 2008 01:25:52,180 --> 01:25:48,620 walking across a top of a field toward 2009 01:25:53,919 --> 01:25:52,190 these ruins and suddenly literally about 2010 01:25:55,660 --> 01:25:53,929 a gram come several little figures I 2011 01:25:57,939 --> 01:25:55,670 guess it's about two or three feet high 2012 01:25:59,080 --> 01:25:57,949 we started crouching and creating along 2013 01:26:01,030 --> 01:25:59,090 and following them and they're showing 2014 01:26:03,040 --> 01:26:01,040 up with a completely human heat 2015 01:26:05,320 --> 01:26:03,050 signature in other words they follow 2016 01:26:07,240 --> 01:26:05,330 these people for dozens of yards and 2017 01:26:08,260 --> 01:26:07,250 they can't all this on video and you 2018 01:26:10,630 --> 01:26:08,270 know these things swing down and 2019 01:26:11,919 --> 01:26:10,640 disappear again they say oh look maybe 2020 01:26:13,240 --> 01:26:11,929 only called spirit activity well I've 2021 01:26:15,760 --> 01:26:13,250 been useful those guys I mean I haven't 2022 01:26:18,459 --> 01:26:15,770 I've got respect for him but spirits 2023 01:26:20,140 --> 01:26:18,469 don't have a superhot encore 2024 01:26:23,140 --> 01:26:20,150 I even have to Orange fading out to 2025 01:26:25,419 --> 01:26:23,150 yellow across the field okay and when 2026 01:26:26,760 --> 01:26:25,429 they get back to the then they had it 2027 01:26:29,020 --> 01:26:26,770 they had a little encounter where 2028 01:26:30,490 --> 01:26:29,030 something the guy says something Ram 2029 01:26:32,439 --> 01:26:30,500 them and they chase this day and they 2030 01:26:34,060 --> 01:26:32,449 chase it and it runs past them and it 2031 01:26:35,979 --> 01:26:34,070 goes into the room they can't 2032 01:26:37,510 --> 01:26:35,989 in each other face and the face actually 2033 01:26:39,760 --> 01:26:37,520 looks strangely similar some of the 2034 01:26:42,370 --> 01:26:39,770 faces that are some Richard shavers frog 2035 01:26:45,129 --> 01:26:42,380 photos or rock photos which are in my 2036 01:26:48,010 --> 01:26:45,139 book this treasure earth but it was very 2037 01:26:50,140 --> 01:26:48,020 a very eerie fish and when was the last 2038 01:26:52,510 --> 01:26:50,150 time a ghost an apparition ran from 2039 01:26:55,689 --> 01:26:52,520 somebody in other words ghosts usually 2040 01:26:57,399 --> 01:26:55,699 are our County are said to just they're 2041 01:26:58,839 --> 01:26:57,409 not even aware you're there they're 2042 01:27:01,569 --> 01:26:58,849 wandering around they're doing their own 2043 01:27:03,760 --> 01:27:01,579 thing you know they have something run 2044 01:27:06,069 --> 01:27:03,770 for you it's just three about life I 2045 01:27:08,200 --> 01:27:06,079 mean please a good if somebody actually 2046 01:27:10,450 --> 01:27:08,210 sees a physical or a quasi physical 2047 01:27:13,450 --> 01:27:10,460 entity and it's fleeing and run so they 2048 01:27:15,310 --> 01:27:13,460 chase it that's basically to me that's 2049 01:27:17,379 --> 01:27:15,320 either I get your attention away from 2050 01:27:20,859 --> 01:27:17,389 over here or you working these other 2051 01:27:22,629 --> 01:27:20,869 beans or I don't want you to see me I'm 2052 01:27:24,459 --> 01:27:22,639 gonna lead you away from you need week 2053 01:27:26,709 --> 01:27:24,469 where I don't want you to be you know 2054 01:27:28,089 --> 01:27:26,719 these things there are a lot of 2055 01:27:30,220 --> 01:27:28,099 conclusions that people jumped in 2056 01:27:32,200 --> 01:27:30,230 studying the stuff and another thing 2057 01:27:33,569 --> 01:27:32,210 that I kind of understood this speaker 2058 01:27:37,229 --> 01:27:33,579 and going back to some children thing 2059 01:27:39,760 --> 01:27:37,239 you know he was back here and I have 2060 01:27:40,479 --> 01:27:39,770 statistics in my book but you know in 2061 01:27:44,319 --> 01:27:40,489 1998 2062 01:27:46,089 --> 01:27:44,329 over 800,000 children disappear in 2063 01:27:48,160 --> 01:27:46,099 United States long period they 2064 01:27:51,220 --> 01:27:48,170 disappeared now some of those were 2065 01:27:52,689 --> 01:27:51,230 runaways maybe what in 20% some of them 2066 01:27:54,669 --> 01:27:52,699 were probably the victims with killers 2067 01:27:58,959 --> 01:27:54,679 and perverts and things of that nature 2068 01:28:02,050 --> 01:27:58,969 okay but estimate or you leave a sizable 2069 01:28:04,000 --> 01:28:02,060 number of kids where did they get what 2070 01:28:05,319 --> 01:28:04,010 happened to them you know is if 2071 01:28:08,350 --> 01:28:05,329 something happened if they were like in 2072 01:28:10,089 --> 01:28:08,360 a terrorist attack or a disease or 2073 01:28:13,419 --> 01:28:10,099 something like that that was taken that 2074 01:28:17,200 --> 01:28:13,429 many kids every year go be an outlier 2075 01:28:18,729 --> 01:28:17,210 there would be huge media coverage it's 2076 01:28:20,649 --> 01:28:18,739 just so strange to me that this is a 2077 01:28:22,149 --> 01:28:20,659 worldwide problem by the way and it's 2078 01:28:23,410 --> 01:28:22,159 not just children it's adults too 2079 01:28:25,810 --> 01:28:23,420 you know Michael why are the things 2080 01:28:29,260 --> 01:28:25,820 Michael about this is the fact that if a 2081 01:28:31,899 --> 01:28:29,270 scattered disappearance occurs child 2082 01:28:34,240 --> 01:28:31,909 disappears an adult disappears you chalk 2083 01:28:38,020 --> 01:28:34,250 it up to any sort of number of reasons 2084 01:28:39,550 --> 01:28:38,030 it's when there's a mass killing a mass 2085 01:28:41,830 --> 01:28:39,560 disappearance where people would be 2086 01:28:43,639 --> 01:28:41,840 concerned you know 500 people 2087 01:28:46,339 --> 01:28:43,649 disappeared tomorrow from their homes 2088 01:28:48,589 --> 01:28:46,349 Wow what happened but if those five herd 2089 01:28:50,779 --> 01:28:48,599 disappearances occurred all across the 2090 01:28:53,479 --> 01:28:50,789 earth and they're not connected in any 2091 01:29:01,549 --> 01:28:53,489 way we're not really as interested in 2092 01:29:03,319 --> 01:29:01,559 what's going on hi this is Tamar from 2093 01:29:05,209 --> 01:29:03,329 new G we're a domain name and web 2094 01:29:07,429 --> 01:29:05,219 hosting company and we really care about 2095 01:29:09,949 --> 01:29:07,439 our customers with domain name purchases 2096 01:29:11,750 --> 01:29:09,959 Namecheap offers free SSL and free who 2097 01:29:13,639 --> 01:29:11,760 is guard for a year to protect your 2098 01:29:15,379 --> 01:29:13,649 identity from spammers we won't bother 2099 01:29:17,149 --> 01:29:15,389 you with unwanted messaging in your 2100 01:29:19,009 --> 01:29:17,159 inbox or upon checkout but most 2101 01:29:20,899 --> 01:29:19,019 importantly we care about you our 2102 01:29:23,089 --> 01:29:20,909 customers your satisfaction and 2103 01:29:24,919 --> 01:29:23,099 Happiness is our primary focus because 2104 01:29:26,839 --> 01:29:24,929 your support means so much to us if 2105 01:29:28,819 --> 01:29:26,849 you'd like to learn more please visit us 2106 01:29:30,979 --> 01:29:28,829 at Radio namecheap.com 2107 01:29:32,929 --> 01:29:30,989 for web hosting and domain name specials 2108 01:29:34,939 --> 01:29:32,939 you can also follow us on twitter at 2109 01:29:37,250 --> 01:29:34,949 twitter.com slash Namecheap where we 2110 01:29:38,989 --> 01:29:37,260 host many great contests or become a fan 2111 01:29:41,319 --> 01:29:38,999 of ours on facebook at facebook.com 2112 01:29:44,869 --> 01:29:41,329 slash names unit see you online 2113 01:29:47,750 --> 01:29:44,879 hi this is Don Ecker and you are tuned 2114 01:29:50,119 --> 01:29:47,760 into the para cast let me tell you what 2115 01:29:53,629 --> 01:29:50,129 you're gonna hear stuff here that you 2116 01:29:57,560 --> 01:29:53,639 probably won't hear anywhere else hear 2117 01:29:59,810 --> 01:29:57,570 that Walter Bosley William Michael Mont 2118 01:30:01,729 --> 01:29:59,820 Alan Greenfield Mike Cullen joining us 2119 01:30:04,759 --> 01:30:01,739 our guest host is christopher O'Brien 2120 01:30:07,459 --> 01:30:04,769 we're talking about Earth face UFOs UFOs 2121 01:30:09,439 --> 01:30:07,469 from another time another space whatever 2122 01:30:11,419 --> 01:30:09,449 Michael you had a further comment yeah 2123 01:30:13,879 --> 01:30:11,429 this is something that whether it's UFO 2124 01:30:15,619 --> 01:30:13,889 nurture or whether it's very lower or 2125 01:30:18,770 --> 01:30:15,629 even tail to the gods and the demons and 2126 01:30:21,589 --> 01:30:18,780 the devil's occupying a pie and so you 2127 01:30:24,020 --> 01:30:21,599 know the accounts in the warrants go 2128 01:30:26,509 --> 01:30:24,030 back to antiquity or even the Bible says 2129 01:30:28,100 --> 01:30:26,519 you can't be where it says respect you 2130 01:30:30,020 --> 01:30:28,110 can account for the dark places of the 2131 01:30:32,659 --> 01:30:30,030 earth or filled with habitations of 2132 01:30:35,209 --> 01:30:32,669 cruelty okay this is the thing that we 2133 01:30:36,770 --> 01:30:35,219 find people disappear bad things happen 2134 01:30:38,929 --> 01:30:36,780 and be careful what you don't watch what 2135 01:30:40,850 --> 01:30:38,939 you're doing and so when you have this 2136 01:30:42,679 --> 01:30:40,860 number of people disappearing 2137 01:30:44,600 --> 01:30:42,689 inexplicably and most of these people 2138 01:30:45,979 --> 01:30:44,610 will simply disappear inexplicably 2139 01:30:48,290 --> 01:30:45,989 they're not all they're not changing 2140 01:30:52,369 --> 01:30:48,300 their identities or whatever it 2141 01:30:55,189 --> 01:30:52,379 especially the kids okay this one I want 2142 01:30:56,800 --> 01:30:55,199 to say that the thing in those gate is 2143 01:30:59,260 --> 01:30:56,810 indicative of something that's not 2144 01:31:01,690 --> 01:30:59,270 Sara Lee benevolent at the very best 2145 01:31:05,770 --> 01:31:01,700 this thing seems to be indifferent 2146 01:31:07,120 --> 01:31:05,780 except when they want something I want 2147 01:31:10,060 --> 01:31:07,130 to mention something because this just 2148 01:31:11,980 --> 01:31:10,070 occurred this is a news story that as of 2149 01:31:14,440 --> 01:31:11,990 the time to show us heard will be a week 2150 01:31:16,600 --> 01:31:14,450 or so old and I'll read it the headline 2151 01:31:19,420 --> 01:31:16,610 is from The Associated Press rescuer 2152 01:31:22,180 --> 01:31:19,430 says God led him to Florida girl and 2153 01:31:24,640 --> 01:31:22,190 swamp Florida man says God led him to an 2154 01:31:27,250 --> 01:31:24,650 11 year old girl lost four days in a 2155 01:31:29,830 --> 01:31:27,260 swamp he say he was clutching his Bible 2156 01:31:32,530 --> 01:31:29,840 reading passages about the Serpent's in 2157 01:31:34,660 --> 01:31:32,540 the Bible when he came upon this missing 2158 01:31:37,330 --> 01:31:34,670 girl anyone have a comment on things 2159 01:31:40,480 --> 01:31:37,340 like that or as a person just wishful 2160 01:31:41,860 --> 01:31:40,490 thinking it well I say I think that it 2161 01:31:44,380 --> 01:31:41,870 doesn't your personal worldview I 2162 01:31:47,650 --> 01:31:44,390 believe in God but so maybe this guy had 2163 01:31:49,450 --> 01:31:47,660 a genuine exterior a psychic or if like 2164 01:31:53,560 --> 01:31:49,460 Walter s a remote unit with anybody 2165 01:31:57,550 --> 01:31:53,570 arguing you know I think it's 2166 01:32:01,620 --> 01:31:57,560 necessarily either/or the actions of God 2167 01:32:06,400 --> 01:32:01,630 and the actions of someone who receives 2168 01:32:12,100 --> 01:32:06,410 guidance through some explainable I'll 2169 01:32:14,140 --> 01:32:12,110 be a very paranormal methodology I don't 2170 01:32:17,260 --> 01:32:14,150 see those two things as conflicting it's 2171 01:32:19,360 --> 01:32:17,270 finding it in different terms and also 2172 01:32:22,450 --> 01:32:19,370 very comfortable with a monotheistic 2173 01:32:25,330 --> 01:32:22,460 belief and an equally comfortable with 2174 01:32:28,060 --> 01:32:25,340 the notion that we we exist in a very 2175 01:32:31,060 --> 01:32:28,070 very on a day to day basis of a very 2176 01:32:36,490 --> 01:32:31,070 narrow plane of reality of which we are 2177 01:32:39,310 --> 01:32:36,500 only a tiny tiny portion and those are 2178 01:32:41,140 --> 01:32:39,320 not incompatible concepts in fact I 2179 01:32:44,050 --> 01:32:41,150 think they reinforce one another that's 2180 01:32:45,400 --> 01:32:44,060 my personal opinion I don't want to 2181 01:32:47,890 --> 01:32:45,410 leave it because I think it touches them 2182 01:32:49,270 --> 01:32:47,900 all this is all terra incognita after 2183 01:32:52,510 --> 01:32:49,280 all right exactly 2184 01:32:53,920 --> 01:32:52,520 you know you look at the strange things 2185 01:32:56,110 --> 01:32:53,930 that happen and you look at greed it's 2186 01:32:58,180 --> 01:32:56,120 like you know the Bermuda Triangle and 2187 01:33:00,580 --> 01:32:58,190 in some of the anomalies that exist in 2188 01:33:01,960 --> 01:33:00,590 the magnetic field of the earth I know 2189 01:33:04,780 --> 01:33:01,970 it's been postulated by other people 2190 01:33:07,030 --> 01:33:04,790 that possibly there's a white hole 2191 01:33:08,980 --> 01:33:07,040 within the earth you know why hole would 2192 01:33:12,910 --> 01:33:08,990 be the opposite end of a black hole 2193 01:33:15,820 --> 01:33:12,920 um you know knows what is the truth or 2194 01:33:18,700 --> 01:33:15,830 the welcome P of the the fact that our 2195 01:33:20,140 --> 01:33:18,710 molten core spins is like this it 2196 01:33:21,730 --> 01:33:20,150 generates the electromagnetic field of 2197 01:33:23,260 --> 01:33:21,740 the earth because that's how that's come 2198 01:33:25,720 --> 01:33:23,270 battery that's what that's what what's 2199 01:33:27,760 --> 01:33:25,730 going on it's a big electromagnet if we 2200 01:33:29,650 --> 01:33:27,770 had something like a going on and they 2201 01:33:32,770 --> 01:33:29,660 were or something like that 2202 01:33:37,570 --> 01:33:32,780 say orbiting the core or inside the core 2203 01:33:39,820 --> 01:33:37,580 the molten most tired core then this 2204 01:33:43,780 --> 01:33:39,830 would explain possibly a lot of these 2205 01:33:45,790 --> 01:33:43,790 anomalies in which place and the gate 2206 01:33:48,310 --> 01:33:45,800 was about it might have something to do 2207 01:33:52,180 --> 01:33:48,320 a lot of the paranormal agony because 2208 01:33:55,540 --> 01:33:52,190 the closer you get to the event I mean 2209 01:33:57,790 --> 01:33:55,550 the creation for this yes it was 2210 01:34:01,050 --> 01:33:57,800 courting it comes into me quite possibly 2211 01:34:03,610 --> 01:34:01,060 the closer you get to the creation of it 2212 01:34:07,390 --> 01:34:03,620 more of these phenomena now you're going 2213 01:34:09,640 --> 01:34:07,400 to see and I think that because once 2214 01:34:12,870 --> 01:34:09,650 something like this get created is going 2215 01:34:15,490 --> 01:34:12,880 to send ripples through space and time 2216 01:34:18,700 --> 01:34:15,500 and it's going to because it has always 2217 01:34:21,910 --> 01:34:18,710 been there in other words it's a fashion 2218 01:34:23,800 --> 01:34:21,920 density that the normal laws of physics 2219 01:34:25,930 --> 01:34:23,810 don't like a floppy and this is if it's 2220 01:34:28,960 --> 01:34:25,940 always been in play but the closer you 2221 01:34:30,910 --> 01:34:28,970 get to the Asian point stronger and the 2222 01:34:33,580 --> 01:34:30,920 closer together the way only to be does 2223 01:34:34,870 --> 01:34:33,590 that make sense so you know this may 2224 01:34:35,950 --> 01:34:34,880 have something to do if there were 2225 01:34:37,600 --> 01:34:35,960 suppose I should hit the tapped into 2226 01:34:39,910 --> 01:34:37,610 that if they were civilization created 2227 01:34:43,060 --> 01:34:39,920 that or you know you'd have something 2228 01:34:45,610 --> 01:34:43,070 like la see over in Geneva let's say in 2229 01:34:47,470 --> 01:34:45,620 five years a haven't met and they create 2230 01:34:50,050 --> 01:34:47,480 something you know maybe that maybe that 2231 01:34:51,640 --> 01:34:50,060 accounts for the increased incidence of 2232 01:34:53,800 --> 01:34:51,650 high strangeness that we're seeing as we 2233 01:34:54,910 --> 01:34:53,810 move forward and by just the fact that 2234 01:34:57,070 --> 01:34:54,920 you know that we're taking a lot of 2235 01:34:58,690 --> 01:34:57,080 typically you know more savvy and we 2236 01:35:00,580 --> 01:34:58,700 have more faster communications maybe 2237 01:35:03,040 --> 01:35:00,590 maybe it's all tied together it's just 2238 01:35:04,900 --> 01:35:03,050 something to think about and I think it 2239 01:35:07,270 --> 01:35:04,910 all is intrinsic to the earth I think it 2240 01:35:09,070 --> 01:35:07,280 all has to do with the energies in the 2241 01:35:11,950 --> 01:35:09,080 electromagnetic field and the structure 2242 01:35:15,160 --> 01:35:11,960 and the density and the densities of our 2243 01:35:18,010 --> 01:35:15,170 own planet and it always has because on 2244 01:35:20,569 --> 01:35:18,020 the ETA H I would like to say to 2245 01:35:24,359 --> 01:35:20,579 anything that seek 2246 01:35:27,899 --> 01:35:24,369 ridiculed and out of hand ascetic belief 2247 01:35:29,729 --> 01:35:27,909 systems or other or other modes of 2248 01:35:33,000 --> 01:35:29,739 thinking or other theories 2249 01:35:36,089 --> 01:35:33,010 that's not hypothesis that's a religion 2250 01:35:38,970 --> 01:35:36,099 okay and it has a straight believers and 2251 01:35:41,879 --> 01:35:38,980 it has its high priests and they're very 2252 01:35:43,799 --> 01:35:41,889 very protective of their religious turf 2253 01:35:54,899 --> 01:35:43,809 it's a life submit that you should call 2254 01:35:59,160 --> 01:35:54,909 EPR they talked extensively about that 2255 01:36:02,069 --> 01:35:59,170 on the last show talking about the work 2256 01:36:04,859 --> 01:36:02,079 of Mack Tony's both well Greg Bishop and 2257 01:36:08,819 --> 01:36:04,869 Nick Redfern and Paul Kimball had some 2258 01:36:10,890 --> 01:36:08,829 very sharp comments relating to the 2259 01:36:13,830 --> 01:36:10,900 belief system that's become entrenched 2260 01:36:16,649 --> 01:36:13,840 in ufology and and you're absolutely 2261 01:36:19,140 --> 01:36:16,659 right Mike Michael that that's a real 2262 01:36:21,750 --> 01:36:19,150 problem and you know it's as soon as you 2263 01:36:24,930 --> 01:36:21,760 try to try to you know the swim upstream 2264 01:36:28,259 --> 01:36:24,940 against the against the you know the the 2265 01:36:29,689 --> 01:36:28,269 status quo with in ufology you do tend 2266 01:36:35,069 --> 01:36:29,699 to run into problems and you are 2267 01:36:37,020 --> 01:36:35,079 ostracize a couple days all right I'm in 2268 01:36:39,509 --> 01:36:37,030 the contact with somebody in line so he 2269 01:36:42,720 --> 01:36:39,519 amazing it was over at the UFO icon a 2270 01:36:45,060 --> 01:36:42,730 class website where somebody basically 2271 01:36:47,729 --> 01:36:45,070 just discord attorneys in his book and 2272 01:36:50,339 --> 01:36:47,739 made a bunch of false assumptions so the 2273 01:36:51,959 --> 01:36:50,349 birds are strong and come down sought to 2274 01:36:54,060 --> 01:36:51,969 really cool and through Richard shaver 2275 01:36:55,169 --> 01:36:54,070 who obviously it's gotten grilling you 2276 01:36:57,359 --> 01:36:55,179 little to next to nothing about 2277 01:37:00,169 --> 01:36:57,369 references apparently went to Wikipedia 2278 01:37:03,060 --> 01:37:00,179 for all this information and you know I 2279 01:37:06,229 --> 01:37:03,070 had to write you know in rebuttal to 2280 01:37:09,899 --> 01:37:06,239 this guy because basically he is 2281 01:37:12,990 --> 01:37:09,909 presenting the point of view a religious 2282 01:37:19,339 --> 01:37:13,000 fanatic you know you know like I say you 2283 01:37:24,479 --> 01:37:19,349 find it you know believe in UFOs right 2284 01:37:25,950 --> 01:37:24,489 yes I just believe have anything to do 2285 01:37:29,069 --> 01:37:25,960 with it right then one present ourselves 2286 01:37:32,020 --> 01:37:29,079 are so scientific but then they won't 2287 01:37:33,400 --> 01:37:32,030 even consider any other possibility 2288 01:37:35,980 --> 01:37:33,410 and they have they have a certain 2289 01:37:37,540 --> 01:37:35,990 paradigm that they stay within and when 2290 01:37:39,400 --> 01:37:37,550 you give them data that doesn't match 2291 01:37:42,880 --> 01:37:39,410 the paradigm for instance you know all 2292 01:37:45,750 --> 01:37:42,890 the documented documented heavily 2293 01:37:48,220 --> 01:37:45,760 documented cases of channeling 2294 01:37:50,230 --> 01:37:48,230 apologized activity demonic possession 2295 01:37:52,360 --> 01:37:50,240 all these type that have been associated 2296 01:37:54,340 --> 01:37:52,370 with a lot of very famous UFO cases okay 2297 01:37:55,570 --> 01:37:54,350 okay so we're talking about that we want 2298 01:37:57,400 --> 01:37:55,580 to talk about how we think they'll and 2299 01:37:59,460 --> 01:37:57,410 we want to talk about how they probably 2300 01:38:01,660 --> 01:37:59,470 up around beside the laws of physics 2301 01:38:03,250 --> 01:38:01,670 well you know the time the laws of 2302 01:38:04,360 --> 01:38:03,260 physics is just a supernatural was a 2303 01:38:08,110 --> 01:38:04,370 poltergeist throwing something across 2304 01:38:10,120 --> 01:38:08,120 your okay so you know they make more 2305 01:38:11,380 --> 01:38:10,130 data they intentionally take stuff out 2306 01:38:13,450 --> 01:38:11,390 and they ignore it and they set it aside 2307 01:38:15,190 --> 01:38:13,460 in cryptozoology I understand there's 2308 01:38:17,050 --> 01:38:15,200 the same thing I mean kids are so 2309 01:38:19,150 --> 01:38:17,060 desperate to say well these are 2310 01:38:21,160 --> 01:38:19,160 flesh-and-blood things and they're your 2311 01:38:22,900 --> 01:38:21,170 sickly within well you know sure they 2312 01:38:25,180 --> 01:38:22,910 they may be within the the template of 2313 01:38:27,010 --> 01:38:25,190 earthly life on the surface and for the 2314 01:38:29,380 --> 01:38:27,020 most part but there's still often 2315 01:38:30,730 --> 01:38:29,390 anomalies there are anomalies associated 2316 01:38:32,950 --> 01:38:30,740 with these creatures which would 2317 01:38:36,370 --> 01:38:32,960 indicate you know that maybe they were 2318 01:38:39,250 --> 01:38:36,380 somewhere here some someone you don't 2319 01:38:40,870 --> 01:38:39,260 normally see some apartment biosphere or 2320 01:38:43,300 --> 01:38:40,880 a part of the structure of the planet 2321 01:38:46,300 --> 01:38:43,310 that's not normally something we 2322 01:38:48,000 --> 01:38:46,310 interact with on a database you know if 2323 01:38:51,340 --> 01:38:48,010 I can jump in here Mike can ask me to 2324 01:38:54,490 --> 01:38:51,350 mention you guys can hear me right 2325 01:38:57,100 --> 01:38:54,500 you're coming through laughs 1x4 can 2326 01:38:58,570 --> 01:38:57,110 hear you yeah I I don't want to tell the 2327 01:39:02,410 --> 01:38:58,580 story because you can read it elsewhere 2328 01:39:03,790 --> 01:39:02,420 but Mike had asked me to mention you 2329 01:39:05,020 --> 01:39:03,800 know and we're talking about things that 2330 01:39:07,810 --> 01:39:05,030 are here with us that you don't normally 2331 01:39:10,180 --> 01:39:07,820 see reminding me of this but in April of 2332 01:39:12,040 --> 01:39:10,190 2005 I had an article published in fate 2333 01:39:14,020 --> 01:39:12,050 and it was under a pseudonym 2334 01:39:15,880 --> 01:39:14,030 I used my fiction student him because 2335 01:39:18,550 --> 01:39:15,890 quite frankly and I haven't really said 2336 01:39:21,610 --> 01:39:18,560 this before actually in these words so 2337 01:39:23,650 --> 01:39:21,620 you're getting a scoop in the first half 2338 01:39:27,700 --> 01:39:23,660 of the last decade I had employment that 2339 01:39:28,900 --> 01:39:27,710 was we'll call it sensitive and Mike 2340 01:39:31,810 --> 01:39:28,910 travel around the world and stuff like 2341 01:39:33,820 --> 01:39:31,820 that and at the time this article was 2342 01:39:36,070 --> 01:39:33,830 published I wasn't really right for me 2343 01:39:38,470 --> 01:39:36,080 to do it under my own name for that 2344 01:39:40,570 --> 01:39:38,480 reason but I did it under my pseudonym 2345 01:39:42,570 --> 01:39:40,580 II a guest and it was and it ended up 2346 01:39:44,580 --> 01:39:42,580 being in 2347 01:39:46,440 --> 01:39:44,590 hardcover Edition that state did on all 2348 01:39:49,290 --> 01:39:46,450 you know the various theories of what 2349 01:39:50,640 --> 01:39:49,300 Roswell might have been and I was kind 2350 01:39:54,750 --> 01:39:50,650 of pleasantly surprised to learn that 2351 01:39:57,570 --> 01:39:54,760 Mac had talked about this in his his 2352 01:40:01,170 --> 01:39:57,580 book that I think Mike Cleland did the 2353 01:40:04,500 --> 01:40:01,180 artwork for and Nick Redfern again talks 2354 01:40:07,230 --> 01:40:04,510 about this very story in his current 2355 01:40:09,240 --> 01:40:07,240 book the contactee book and you can read 2356 01:40:11,580 --> 01:40:09,250 about it in those two books or in the 2357 01:40:13,710 --> 01:40:11,590 fate books but essentially it's 2358 01:40:15,270 --> 01:40:13,720 something my dad told me he encountered 2359 01:40:17,220 --> 01:40:15,280 when he'd been telling me for over 2360 01:40:19,320 --> 01:40:17,230 thirty years what Roswell really was 2361 01:40:21,900 --> 01:40:19,330 that he had been briefed in on it in the 2362 01:40:24,900 --> 01:40:21,910 Air Force and that he in his encounter 2363 01:40:27,270 --> 01:40:24,910 with the people underground this was in 2364 01:40:31,140 --> 01:40:27,280 eastern Arizona while he was in the Air 2365 01:40:33,690 --> 01:40:31,150 Force in the late 50s and it and it kind 2366 01:40:35,430 --> 01:40:33,700 of you know there's another you know for 2367 01:40:37,280 --> 01:40:35,440 me it was kind of a first-hand account 2368 01:40:40,800 --> 01:40:37,290 from someone in this case my dad of 2369 01:40:43,620 --> 01:40:40,810 these beings these people that you know 2370 01:40:45,540 --> 01:40:43,630 are living right here with us but not a 2371 01:40:47,760 --> 01:40:45,550 parent you know we don't have a super 2372 01:40:49,140 --> 01:40:47,770 large amount of time Walter and I wanted 2373 01:40:51,810 --> 01:40:49,150 to mention to our listeners that Nick 2374 01:40:54,120 --> 01:40:51,820 Redfern will be back on the power cast 2375 01:40:55,500 --> 01:40:54,130 to talk about the book contact Dietz and 2376 01:40:59,340 --> 01:40:55,510 will also have Jim Mosely on that 2377 01:41:01,800 --> 01:40:59,350 episode very soon now okay Walter ten 2378 01:41:04,560 --> 01:41:01,810 thousand words or less can you tell us 2379 01:41:09,360 --> 01:41:04,570 what you learn from your father about 2380 01:41:11,670 --> 01:41:09,370 this yeah basically he was briefed in on 2381 01:41:15,270 --> 01:41:11,680 Roswell because what happened at Roswell 2382 01:41:17,520 --> 01:41:15,280 in 1947 was a craft from the 2383 01:41:20,400 --> 01:41:17,530 civilization underground crashed on the 2384 01:41:23,310 --> 01:41:20,410 surface and it happened again in the 2385 01:41:26,040 --> 01:41:23,320 late 50s in eastern Arizona he was part 2386 01:41:29,460 --> 01:41:26,050 of a military effort when he was on 2387 01:41:31,590 --> 01:41:29,470 active duty he was taken to this area in 2388 01:41:34,320 --> 01:41:31,600 Arizona which was underneath the 2389 01:41:36,540 --> 01:41:34,330 vicinity of Winslow Xolo and all that 2390 01:41:40,260 --> 01:41:36,550 and that's where he had his encounter 2391 01:41:42,420 --> 01:41:40,270 and one of the beings saying kinda he 2392 01:41:45,420 --> 01:41:42,430 said they are as human as you and I they 2393 01:41:47,790 --> 01:41:45,430 just have little to no body hair 2394 01:41:49,680 --> 01:41:47,800 they're very pale they have an advanced 2395 01:41:52,950 --> 01:41:49,690 technology that does work kind of 2396 01:41:53,950 --> 01:41:52,960 telekinetically because this being you 2397 01:41:56,950 --> 01:41:53,960 know 2398 01:42:00,700 --> 01:41:56,960 pretty much killed one of the guys he 2399 01:42:02,320 --> 01:42:00,710 was with with a handheld device and that 2400 01:42:03,610 --> 01:42:02,330 those those are the basics and 2401 01:42:05,320 --> 01:42:03,620 apparently they went underground 2402 01:42:08,500 --> 01:42:05,330 thousands of years ago because of a 2403 01:42:14,140 --> 01:42:08,510 surface Cataclysm I see old shaver story 2404 01:42:16,300 --> 01:42:14,150 all over again kinda sorta yeah we need 2405 01:42:18,280 --> 01:42:16,310 right now to jump in on this 2406 01:42:20,650 --> 01:42:18,290 I wish we had Richard shaver here of 2407 01:42:22,840 --> 01:42:20,660 course Richard shaver died in the 1970s 2408 01:42:24,910 --> 01:42:22,850 I met him as I mentioned to our 2409 01:42:26,890 --> 01:42:24,920 listeners earlier I had extensive 2410 01:42:29,680 --> 01:42:26,900 correspondence with him and I know how 2411 01:42:32,260 --> 01:42:29,690 one did as well my ex-wife Geneva also 2412 01:42:34,060 --> 01:42:32,270 had a lot of communications with him and 2413 01:42:36,520 --> 01:42:34,070 one of the things that shaver brought 2414 01:42:38,560 --> 01:42:36,530 about and I know we're running back and 2415 01:42:40,630 --> 01:42:38,570 forth on subjects because there's so 2416 01:42:43,209 --> 01:42:40,640 much to cover in very little time you 2417 01:42:44,770 --> 01:42:43,219 mentioned it Michael the rock books now 2418 01:42:48,010 --> 01:42:44,780 supposedly these were some kind of 2419 01:42:50,200 --> 01:42:48,020 crystalline or record of ancient times 2420 01:42:58,780 --> 01:42:50,210 but before I asked the rock book 2421 01:43:01,420 --> 01:42:58,790 question and it's not rock and roll 58 2422 01:43:03,880 --> 01:43:01,430 years fate has provided true reports of 2423 01:43:05,800 --> 01:43:03,890 the strange and unknown fate brings you 2424 01:43:07,570 --> 01:43:05,810 the latest in all aspects of the 2425 01:43:11,110 --> 01:43:07,580 paranormal like angels and miracles 2426 01:43:11,950 --> 01:43:11,120 psychic phenomena ghosts UFOs and much 2427 01:43:13,990 --> 01:43:11,960 much more 2428 01:43:16,479 --> 01:43:14,000 to receive your complimentary faith 2429 01:43:20,740 --> 01:43:16,489 magazine call now at one eight hundred 2430 01:43:29,729 --> 01:43:20,750 seven two eight two seven three Oh or 2431 01:43:29,739 --> 01:43:38,550 www.wku.edu/oucampus 2432 01:43:38,560 --> 01:43:42,700 [Music] 2433 01:44:01,070 --> 01:43:45,830 you've entered another dimension we've 2434 01:44:01,080 --> 01:44:06,010 [Music] 2435 01:44:12,140 --> 01:44:09,260 we have Mike Lowen Allen Greenfield 2436 01:44:15,820 --> 01:44:12,150 Michael Mott Walter Bosley our guest 2437 01:44:18,940 --> 01:44:15,830 co-host Christopher O'Brien 2438 01:44:24,860 --> 01:44:18,950 [Laughter] 2439 01:44:27,590 --> 01:44:24,870 David the tricksters here amongst us 2440 01:44:31,550 --> 01:44:27,600 Michael Mott tell us about rock books 2441 01:44:33,080 --> 01:44:31,560 well you know Shay work and you know 2442 01:44:35,050 --> 01:44:33,090 earlier in his life he had he had 2443 01:44:38,480 --> 01:44:35,060 claimed to have seen indications of 2444 01:44:40,700 --> 01:44:38,490 existing technologies and technology as 2445 01:44:42,980 --> 01:44:40,710 he called the pre-flood world you know a 2446 01:44:44,870 --> 01:44:42,990 pretty cataclysmic time when the admins 2447 01:44:47,210 --> 01:44:44,880 and the titanosaur which are basically 2448 01:44:49,640 --> 01:44:47,220 the same people I guess if you could 2449 01:44:51,950 --> 01:44:49,650 equate them two nations two different 2450 01:44:54,860 --> 01:44:51,960 nations but when they existed on the 2451 01:44:56,840 --> 01:44:54,870 earth and the plaintiffs in the solar 2452 01:44:59,660 --> 01:44:56,850 system they had branched out to or they 2453 01:45:01,940 --> 01:44:59,670 had a sort of an empire going there and 2454 01:45:04,460 --> 01:45:01,950 they had recorded all their histories 2455 01:45:07,070 --> 01:45:04,470 their entertainment everything installed 2456 01:45:08,870 --> 01:45:07,080 in my and there was a technology he 2457 01:45:10,340 --> 01:45:08,880 claimed that they had had where you 2458 01:45:12,410 --> 01:45:10,350 could take these rocks and put them into 2459 01:45:14,690 --> 01:45:12,420 technology and he was basically created 2460 01:45:16,430 --> 01:45:14,700 an immersive environment around you and 2461 01:45:18,560 --> 01:45:16,440 you could see everything that had been 2462 01:45:20,510 --> 01:45:18,570 recorded well at the time that you know 2463 01:45:22,220 --> 01:45:20,520 what the stuff you know it seems just 2464 01:45:24,590 --> 01:45:22,230 you know way out there but but now we 2465 01:45:28,340 --> 01:45:24,600 know of course about about holography 2466 01:45:31,030 --> 01:45:28,350 and about the ads and the courts the 2467 01:45:35,780 --> 01:45:31,040 ability of courts and in particular to 2468 01:45:37,790 --> 01:45:35,790 record and store information and so what 2469 01:45:40,190 --> 01:45:37,800 was your center did was he moved to 2470 01:45:42,200 --> 01:45:40,200 southern Arkansas where he spent most of 2471 01:45:44,930 --> 01:45:42,210 this or at least the last out of his 2472 01:45:46,550 --> 01:45:44,940 life and while he was there he wasn't 2473 01:45:48,110 --> 01:45:46,560 called the wrong book studio he he 2474 01:45:50,300 --> 01:45:48,120 claimed he had found these rocks in the 2475 01:45:53,840 --> 01:45:50,310 mountains there and he was cutting these 2476 01:45:56,090 --> 01:45:53,850 rocks open with a rock saw and then what 2477 01:45:57,920 --> 01:45:56,100 he would do he claimed that the peaks 2478 01:45:59,960 --> 01:45:57,930 were the records and it the image inside 2479 01:46:01,670 --> 01:45:59,970 the books are jumbled and they're there 2480 01:46:03,080 --> 01:46:01,680 they're layered and they let it kind of 2481 01:46:04,610 --> 01:46:03,090 spring that's because they're actually 2482 01:46:06,110 --> 01:46:04,620 meant to be played back by 2483 01:46:08,300 --> 01:46:06,120 three-dimensional device so when you cut 2484 01:46:10,580 --> 01:46:08,310 into the basically destroying the wreck 2485 01:46:12,490 --> 01:46:10,590 but he cut these things in a really thin 2486 01:46:14,830 --> 01:46:12,500 slices and then he would 2487 01:46:16,240 --> 01:46:14,840 he would make photo exposures neither on 2488 01:46:17,680 --> 01:46:16,250 like a canvas that he had treated with 2489 01:46:18,850 --> 01:46:17,690 the photosensitive thing so that you 2490 01:46:20,650 --> 01:46:18,860 didn't make a painting based on what he 2491 01:46:22,840 --> 01:46:20,660 thought he saw or else on the 2492 01:46:24,520 --> 01:46:22,850 photographic paper you know like he 2493 01:46:27,190 --> 01:46:24,530 wants to come into contact I mean I came 2494 01:46:28,930 --> 01:46:27,200 into possession of a large number of 2495 01:46:31,290 --> 01:46:28,940 these these photo exposures that he had 2496 01:46:33,880 --> 01:46:31,300 made and he had sent to Ray Palmer and 2497 01:46:37,420 --> 01:46:33,890 it was probably the basis or the earth 2498 01:46:39,250 --> 01:46:37,430 or the pitch in the secret world he saw 2499 01:46:41,020 --> 01:46:39,260 the little book that he created so the 2500 01:46:44,110 --> 01:46:41,030 same thing called this tragic earth a 2501 01:46:45,490 --> 01:46:44,120 sense of Ray Palmer it's a book out you 2502 01:46:48,010 --> 01:46:45,500 know we just kind of connect shavers 2503 01:46:48,610 --> 01:46:48,020 ideas result words and there were some 2504 01:46:51,430 --> 01:46:48,620 of these images 2505 01:46:53,980 --> 01:46:51,440 it's called this tragic earth but you 2506 01:46:55,990 --> 01:46:53,990 know he was ridiculed he's crazy and 2507 01:46:58,780 --> 01:46:56,000 soap and so on but the interesting thing 2508 01:47:00,280 --> 01:46:58,790 in our field is Crenshaw just pointed me 2509 01:47:02,710 --> 01:47:00,290 out point out to me recently you there 2510 01:47:04,420 --> 01:47:02,720 there was a news story recently where 2511 01:47:06,280 --> 01:47:04,430 some scientists somewhere in the United 2512 01:47:09,310 --> 01:47:06,290 States claiming had found evidence that 2513 01:47:11,800 --> 01:47:09,320 somebody was recording tiny pictures 2514 01:47:13,690 --> 01:47:11,810 inside of rocks or in rocks or on rocks 2515 01:47:14,950 --> 01:47:13,700 thousands of years ago they don't know 2516 01:47:16,750 --> 01:47:14,960 how they did it but they found this 2517 01:47:19,090 --> 01:47:16,760 incredibly data I guess you'd have to 2518 01:47:20,620 --> 01:47:19,100 talk them to this to get all the 2519 01:47:22,780 --> 01:47:20,630 information on that but you know it's 2520 01:47:24,310 --> 01:47:22,790 just like just an eval you know science 2521 01:47:26,350 --> 01:47:24,320 catching up with what shavin would say 2522 01:47:28,620 --> 01:47:26,360 you know whether whether it's a lot of 2523 01:47:30,130 --> 01:47:28,630 Griffey and in immersive virtual reality 2524 01:47:33,310 --> 01:47:30,140 environment like he was trying to 2525 01:47:35,860 --> 01:47:33,320 describe or you know storing data and 2526 01:47:37,270 --> 01:47:35,870 playback data in crystal form you know 2527 01:47:40,300 --> 01:47:37,280 all these things he talked about will 2528 01:47:42,010 --> 01:47:40,310 never become a reality and and you know 2529 01:47:44,290 --> 01:47:42,020 he's been greatly ridiculed by people 2530 01:47:45,460 --> 01:47:44,300 who pretty much no messing about you 2531 01:47:46,690 --> 01:47:45,470 know all they know is they've heard 2532 01:47:48,220 --> 01:47:46,700 these the he's a guy that you ridicule 2533 01:47:49,840 --> 01:47:48,230 you know dissociate yourself 2534 01:47:51,880 --> 01:47:49,850 where's your shaver is to set yourself 2535 01:47:53,800 --> 01:47:51,890 up to be seen as a crackpot you know 2536 01:47:56,620 --> 01:47:53,810 that kind of had it to you and really 2537 01:47:58,660 --> 01:47:56,630 you know I see that isn't he in that 2538 01:48:00,490 --> 01:47:58,670 permeates we're talking about anyway I 2539 01:48:02,320 --> 01:48:00,500 mean that is something that I talk about 2540 01:48:04,720 --> 01:48:02,330 in my book I think that's a cook that's 2541 01:48:06,820 --> 01:48:04,730 a protective lament that we have as a 2542 01:48:09,370 --> 01:48:06,830 species because we've been dealing with 2543 01:48:12,220 --> 01:48:09,380 this stuff for so long that is so 2544 01:48:14,500 --> 01:48:12,230 frightening it that we tend to diminish 2545 01:48:16,570 --> 01:48:14,510 and ridicule these things and people who 2546 01:48:19,390 --> 01:48:16,580 have these experiences people who talk 2547 01:48:21,220 --> 01:48:19,400 about it because it's so disturbing 2548 01:48:22,930 --> 01:48:21,230 through our worldview and it would make 2549 01:48:23,919 --> 01:48:22,940 it so hard to function otherwise as a 2550 01:48:25,390 --> 01:48:23,929 society 2551 01:48:26,949 --> 01:48:25,400 so you know that I guess that could have 2552 01:48:29,919 --> 01:48:26,959 something to do with ETR 2553 01:48:32,379 --> 01:48:29,929 and their problem but I think this was 2554 01:48:34,810 --> 01:48:32,389 about power and control 2555 01:48:36,669 --> 01:48:34,820 so is your question very much so very 2556 01:48:39,489 --> 01:48:36,679 much so I know after looking through 2557 01:48:41,199 --> 01:48:39,499 this for so many years I actually got to 2558 01:48:42,729 --> 01:48:41,209 see some of the pictures or I thought I 2559 01:48:44,620 --> 01:48:42,739 did it might have been a cosmic 2560 01:48:46,149 --> 01:48:44,630 Rorschach test I didn't have any 2561 01:48:48,129 --> 01:48:46,159 equipment at hand but it was very 2562 01:48:50,229 --> 01:48:48,139 fascinating at the time Alan did you do 2563 01:48:53,399 --> 01:48:50,239 much study of those rock books when you 2564 01:48:57,969 --> 01:48:53,409 knew shaver oh I did I did more than 2565 01:49:01,029 --> 01:48:57,979 more than that Schaffer I showed an 2566 01:49:03,790 --> 01:49:01,039 interest in them and shaver didn't just 2567 01:49:07,689 --> 01:49:03,800 send me pictures and 35 millimeter 2568 01:49:13,209 --> 01:49:07,699 slides he sent me the rocks like when he 2569 01:49:14,500 --> 01:49:13,219 was had first fled from Wisconsin - was 2570 01:49:18,189 --> 01:49:14,510 it Harkins aw yeah 2571 01:49:20,560 --> 01:49:18,199 he started doing these these cuttings 2572 01:49:24,040 --> 01:49:20,570 and he would he would send me that he 2573 01:49:26,739 --> 01:49:24,050 had send me the rocks themselves and I 2574 01:49:28,839 --> 01:49:26,749 had maybe a hundred pounds of the rocks 2575 01:49:34,089 --> 01:49:28,849 and it correspond it with him about it 2576 01:49:36,850 --> 01:49:34,099 and at the time I got the only surviving 2577 01:49:39,219 --> 01:49:36,860 letter I have from savers and saying why 2578 01:49:41,679 --> 01:49:39,229 can't you see these things well it was 2579 01:49:43,330 --> 01:49:41,689 hard to do but I was not factoring in 2580 01:49:46,929 --> 01:49:43,340 some things because this was the mid 2581 01:49:47,890 --> 01:49:46,939 1960s and I was not factoring in lasers 2582 01:49:50,620 --> 01:49:47,900 holography 2583 01:49:53,679 --> 01:49:50,630 and so forth so I turned these rocks 2584 01:49:58,989 --> 01:49:53,689 over to my friend Terry a long time ago 2585 01:50:02,020 --> 01:49:58,999 and maybe 10 15 years ago Terry showed 2586 01:50:07,390 --> 01:50:02,030 me something absolutely fascinating and 2587 01:50:09,160 --> 01:50:07,400 I wish I could show that but you know 2588 01:50:13,479 --> 01:50:09,170 Podcast reading your program whatever 2589 01:50:15,250 --> 01:50:13,489 it's very hard to do these cuttings of 2590 01:50:19,989 --> 01:50:15,260 rocks he's thin cuttings 2591 01:50:22,359 --> 01:50:19,999 if projected as a as a hologram and I'm 2592 01:50:25,719 --> 01:50:22,369 not an expert in holography but I I know 2593 01:50:28,259 --> 01:50:25,729 what I see are absolutely fascinating 2594 01:50:30,969 --> 01:50:28,269 and the two-dimensional image however 2595 01:50:33,580 --> 01:50:30,979 close to the original it is doesn't do 2596 01:50:35,680 --> 01:50:33,590 it justice these are pictures 2597 01:50:37,390 --> 01:50:35,690 I don't know what to make of them again 2598 01:50:40,680 --> 01:50:37,400 I am NOT believer in the Hollow Earth 2599 01:50:44,670 --> 01:50:40,690 but they are clearly pictures of 2600 01:50:49,750 --> 01:50:44,680 something things that you can identify a 2601 01:50:53,980 --> 01:50:49,760 priest holding a wand and a bird flying 2602 01:50:56,950 --> 01:50:53,990 towards the priest in three dimensions 2603 01:50:59,650 --> 01:50:56,960 now this suggests something we're 2604 01:51:03,070 --> 01:50:59,660 talking about rocks that are millions or 2605 01:51:03,760 --> 01:51:03,080 billions of years old I don't know what 2606 01:51:06,970 --> 01:51:03,770 to make of that 2607 01:51:11,980 --> 01:51:06,980 and I no longer have access either to 2608 01:51:13,960 --> 01:51:11,990 Terry who is either alive or dead or to 2609 01:51:15,970 --> 01:51:13,970 the rocks and I wish that I did I've got 2610 01:51:17,710 --> 01:51:15,980 a couple of them and I've got some of 2611 01:51:19,180 --> 01:51:17,720 the slides and pictures I don't even 2612 01:51:22,390 --> 01:51:19,190 have anything to project the slides 2613 01:51:24,880 --> 01:51:22,400 anymore but it's not an inkblot type 2614 01:51:27,490 --> 01:51:24,890 effect there definitely are things there 2615 01:51:30,580 --> 01:51:27,500 but it's the information when I received 2616 01:51:33,340 --> 01:51:30,590 it I didn't have the necessary decoder 2617 01:51:37,600 --> 01:51:33,350 ring and the decoder ring is holography 2618 01:51:41,230 --> 01:51:37,610 and if anyone has any of the original 2619 01:51:43,210 --> 01:51:41,240 rocks go ahead yeah you know in this 2620 01:51:45,700 --> 01:51:43,220 tragic earth the book that they're using 2621 01:51:49,210 --> 01:51:45,710 the title of this book I mean it's got a 2622 01:51:51,130 --> 01:51:49,220 lot of extra stuff in it but what I did 2623 01:51:53,860 --> 01:51:51,140 was I took the images that he had sent 2624 01:51:56,740 --> 01:51:53,870 the photo exposures I scanned them in at 2625 01:51:58,120 --> 01:51:56,750 very high resolution in Photoshop and 2626 01:52:01,030 --> 01:51:58,130 there's an indent on them in Photoshop 2627 01:52:03,250 --> 01:52:01,040 and that's when I started finding stuff 2628 01:52:04,870 --> 01:52:03,260 and I mean I found some stuff is pretty 2629 01:52:06,900 --> 01:52:04,880 inexplicable not some of the stuff I 2630 01:52:08,680 --> 01:52:06,910 look at I say well you know that's just 2631 01:52:11,530 --> 01:52:08,690 coincidence that that's just you know 2632 01:52:13,330 --> 01:52:11,540 the human mind looking for patterns but 2633 01:52:15,970 --> 01:52:13,340 I'm going to tell you man there are some 2634 01:52:17,230 --> 01:52:15,980 things in there that you once you you 2635 01:52:19,240 --> 01:52:17,240 might take a minute to see it but once 2636 01:52:22,240 --> 01:52:19,250 you look at it you'll say how in the 2637 01:52:25,300 --> 01:52:22,250 world did that end up simple in the same 2638 01:52:27,160 --> 01:52:25,310 slice of rock that's always been overly 2639 01:52:29,110 --> 01:52:27,170 images off of the same slice you know 2640 01:52:32,410 --> 01:52:29,120 it's it's obvious that there's something 2641 01:52:34,180 --> 01:52:32,420 anomalous going on here and also a book 2642 01:52:36,550 --> 01:52:34,190 are several things from older magazine 2643 01:52:38,770 --> 01:52:36,560 for shaver tells you how he did it his 2644 01:52:40,210 --> 01:52:38,780 entire first seizure or how he created 2645 01:52:40,620 --> 01:52:40,220 these things are all in there from 2646 01:52:48,000 --> 01:52:40,630 various 2647 01:52:52,590 --> 01:52:48,010 trenching search magazine and fate other 2648 01:52:53,730 --> 01:52:52,600 over magazines but there's definitely he 2649 01:52:57,390 --> 01:52:53,740 was onto something 2650 01:53:00,300 --> 01:52:57,400 I think shavers problem was he came he 2651 01:53:02,490 --> 01:53:00,310 came across to a lot of people such ways 2652 01:53:03,870 --> 01:53:02,500 so out there that they just instantly 2653 01:53:06,060 --> 01:53:03,880 dismissed whatever he was going to say 2654 01:53:07,560 --> 01:53:06,070 the motorway she was ahead of his time 2655 01:53:08,790 --> 01:53:07,570 and you know of course he had his 2656 01:53:11,790 --> 01:53:08,800 conflicts with the science fiction 2657 01:53:14,070 --> 01:53:11,800 community who just were just aghast at 2658 01:53:16,290 --> 01:53:14,080 this guy who claims with his stuff that 2659 01:53:17,130 --> 01:53:16,300 he was writing about was true and so 2660 01:53:20,520 --> 01:53:17,140 they did everything they could to 2661 01:53:22,710 --> 01:53:20,530 discredit here Mary Palmer and so it was 2662 01:53:24,780 --> 01:53:22,720 he just never really got the break they 2663 01:53:27,690 --> 01:53:24,790 probably should have gotten in terms of 2664 01:53:30,420 --> 01:53:27,700 his ability it's kind of like Mac as a 2665 01:53:31,950 --> 01:53:30,430 thinker and so I guess that's what I 2666 01:53:34,050 --> 01:53:31,960 thought I have to say but get it you can 2667 01:53:35,340 --> 01:53:34,060 definitely if you can get your hands on 2668 01:53:39,300 --> 01:53:35,350 some of these things you can scan them 2669 01:53:41,250 --> 01:53:39,310 in and you will find images that are 2670 01:53:41,970 --> 01:53:41,260 definitely three-dimensional images even 2671 01:53:44,040 --> 01:53:41,980 though you're looking at in the 2672 01:53:45,360 --> 01:53:44,050 two-dimensional environment well maybe 2673 01:53:47,760 --> 01:53:45,370 some of the technology that we're 2674 01:53:50,100 --> 01:53:47,770 learning from the movie Avatar to make 2675 01:53:56,040 --> 01:53:50,110 3d movies we could use to protect 3d 2676 01:54:02,220 --> 01:53:56,050 rocks exactly if anybody has any of the 2677 01:54:07,440 --> 01:54:02,230 original rocks many times since then 2678 01:54:08,960 --> 01:54:07,450 into the States and any existences I've 2679 01:54:11,850 --> 01:54:08,970 been contacted by some guys at Arkansas 2680 01:54:14,310 --> 01:54:11,860 who are doing a documentary on little 2681 01:54:15,920 --> 01:54:14,320 shaver and they're very very serious 2682 01:54:18,300 --> 01:54:15,930 about this and they want to interview 2683 01:54:21,300 --> 01:54:18,310 anybody in everybody and give them 2684 01:54:23,070 --> 01:54:21,310 anything to do with him and these are 2685 01:54:25,560 --> 01:54:23,080 some real reputable guys one of these 2686 01:54:28,980 --> 01:54:25,570 guys is a police detective investigator 2687 01:54:31,830 --> 01:54:28,990 the other one is a district attorney and 2688 01:54:33,360 --> 01:54:31,840 they're making a documentary and what I 2689 01:54:35,640 --> 01:54:33,370 can come at it but they pretty much have 2690 01:54:39,540 --> 01:54:35,650 a lot of respect for shaver and you know 2691 01:54:41,550 --> 01:54:39,550 this is the kind of you know this kind 2692 01:54:42,810 --> 01:54:41,560 of skews it gives you these guys are 2693 01:54:44,970 --> 01:54:42,820 professional investigators that's what 2694 01:54:46,650 --> 01:54:44,980 they do for a living and they seem to 2695 01:54:47,490 --> 01:54:46,660 think that there's something to a lot of 2696 01:54:50,170 --> 01:54:47,500 what she ever said 2697 01:54:52,210 --> 01:54:50,180 so I guess Jean and 2698 01:54:54,910 --> 01:54:52,220 and and how I let you know sis you guys 2699 01:54:58,240 --> 01:54:54,920 new shavers I probably should put you in 2700 01:54:58,990 --> 01:54:58,250 touch with these two guys sure I'm no 2701 01:55:02,620 --> 01:54:59,000 problem with that 2702 01:55:05,770 --> 01:55:02,630 you know okay 2703 01:55:08,500 --> 01:55:05,780 yeah the outer space okay 2704 01:55:10,900 --> 01:55:08,510 a genius might recall a sort of a 2705 01:55:13,210 --> 01:55:10,910 duplication of some shavers work 2706 01:55:15,310 --> 01:55:13,220 something that when we were 2707 01:55:18,460 --> 01:55:15,320 investigating Brown Mountain we ran 2708 01:55:23,080 --> 01:55:18,470 across the outer space rock shop museum 2709 01:55:25,000 --> 01:55:23,090 run by this very unusual contact II 2710 01:55:27,490 --> 01:55:25,010 although his story resembles those 2711 01:55:29,200 --> 01:55:27,500 historically under you interviewed him 2712 01:55:35,080 --> 01:55:29,210 in fact I've got a photo of you 2713 01:55:36,480 --> 01:55:35,090 interviewing him please don't know 2714 01:55:38,110 --> 01:55:36,490 listen we're just about out of time 2715 01:55:40,420 --> 01:55:38,120 great photo 2716 01:55:42,160 --> 01:55:40,430 oh is it well yeah but when I look at 2717 01:55:44,380 --> 01:55:42,170 myself today I say well you know I weigh 2718 01:55:46,810 --> 01:55:44,390 about the same but I look a little bit 2719 01:55:49,090 --> 01:55:46,820 older we're just about out of time here 2720 01:55:51,610 --> 01:55:49,100 so rather than start anew another 2721 01:55:52,780 --> 01:55:51,620 subject and be forced to go over another 2722 01:55:55,060 --> 01:55:52,790 six and a half hours 2723 01:55:56,650 --> 01:55:55,070 let me ask each of you separately to 2724 01:55:58,630 --> 01:55:56,660 tell our listeners where they can learn 2725 01:56:01,960 --> 01:55:58,640 more about the things you do my Cleland 2726 01:56:03,670 --> 01:56:01,970 you can look at my blog I have two blogs 2727 01:56:06,730 --> 01:56:03,680 one is illustrations and the other one 2728 01:56:08,440 --> 01:56:06,740 is the sort of paranormal stuff that 2729 01:56:12,940 --> 01:56:08,450 I've been involved in and it's hidden 2730 01:56:14,590 --> 01:56:12,950 experience dot blog spot.com Ellen 2731 01:56:19,450 --> 01:56:14,600 Greenfield where can we find more of 2732 01:56:25,570 --> 01:56:19,460 your work online Google my name is al l 2733 01:56:27,970 --> 01:56:25,580 he in gr EE n fi eld and you will come 2734 01:56:32,680 --> 01:56:27,980 up with two million six hundred and ten 2735 01:56:34,390 --> 01:56:32,690 thousand entries so I'm easy to find we 2736 01:56:34,720 --> 01:56:34,400 know where you are we know where you've 2737 01:56:36,640 --> 01:56:34,730 been 2738 01:56:38,740 --> 01:56:36,650 Michael Mott where can we find more of 2739 01:56:41,200 --> 01:56:38,750 the things that you do well you can find 2740 01:56:43,420 --> 01:56:41,210 pretty much everything in terms of at 2741 01:56:46,750 --> 01:56:43,430 least in terms of links to different 2742 01:56:52,150 --> 01:56:46,760 places of nonfiction and research of 2743 01:56:54,660 --> 01:56:52,160 this nature and which also includes some 2744 01:57:03,759 --> 01:56:54,670 of the elements of this stuff and 2745 01:57:07,419 --> 01:57:03,769 artwork at WWE comm s mo t TI o RP h IC 2746 01:57:09,879 --> 01:57:07,429 DICOM Walter Bosley you're a new friend 2747 01:57:11,500 --> 01:57:09,889 of the show we are happy you came aboard 2748 01:57:13,600 --> 01:57:11,510 even though you came in a few minutes 2749 01:57:17,080 --> 01:57:13,610 later where can we find more of the 2750 01:57:20,319 --> 01:57:17,090 things that you do you well you can find 2751 01:57:23,080 --> 01:57:20,329 my story I referenced that I wrote under 2752 01:57:25,330 --> 01:57:23,090 a guest in Mac Tony's and Nic Redferns 2753 01:57:28,390 --> 01:57:25,340 new books Nick read France contact eBook 2754 01:57:30,220 --> 01:57:28,400 I am scheduled to speak at the Mount 2755 01:57:33,250 --> 01:57:30,230 Hood paranormal conference the weekend 2756 01:57:36,100 --> 01:57:33,260 of April 25th on by the way is when the 2757 01:57:38,319 --> 01:57:36,110 show is actually going to be heard ok 2758 01:57:42,970 --> 01:57:38,329 you can jump ahead of it what do you 2759 01:57:44,830 --> 01:57:42,980 have next I am my book he's speaking on 2760 01:57:46,270 --> 01:57:44,840 the book latitude 33 key to the kingdom 2761 01:57:48,879 --> 01:57:46,280 which talks about interdimensional 2762 01:57:51,040 --> 01:57:48,889 portals and ley line intersections and 2763 01:57:54,220 --> 01:57:51,050 that can be found at Kevin Smith's show 2764 01:57:56,290 --> 01:57:54,230 calm and you can find me on Kevin 2765 01:57:59,169 --> 01:57:56,300 Smith's show a lot and sitting in with 2766 01:58:01,839 --> 01:57:59,179 Greg Bishop and such after that I will 2767 01:58:05,140 --> 01:58:01,849 be speaking in October on the same thing 2768 01:58:06,279 --> 01:58:05,150 at a conference in just outside a 2769 01:58:10,810 --> 01:58:06,289 paranormal conference outside of 2770 01:58:11,319 --> 01:58:10,820 Knoxville Tennessee okay Christopher O 2771 01:58:13,450 --> 01:58:11,329 Brien 2772 01:58:15,370 --> 01:58:13,460 what are you working on what kind our 2773 01:58:17,229 --> 01:58:15,380 listeners check out well of course I do 2774 01:58:19,209 --> 01:58:17,239 have my my latest book which is called 2775 01:58:21,759 --> 01:58:19,219 stocking the tricksters which attempts 2776 01:58:23,799 --> 01:58:21,769 to put a unified field theory for 2777 01:58:26,589 --> 01:58:23,809 paranormal phenomenon out there 2778 01:58:28,419 --> 01:58:26,599 it's a it's a pretty ambitious project 2779 01:58:30,250 --> 01:58:28,429 I've gotten some good feedback on the 2780 01:58:33,009 --> 01:58:30,260 book I have a website it's called our 2781 01:58:35,319 --> 01:58:33,019 strange planet calm we do live in a 2782 01:58:37,959 --> 01:58:35,329 strange planet and there's tons of 2783 01:58:41,200 --> 01:58:37,969 information there my entire database is 2784 01:58:43,180 --> 01:58:41,210 there and and of course I'm always going 2785 01:58:45,220 --> 01:58:43,190 to be found there on the podcast forums 2786 01:58:47,049 --> 01:58:45,230 as well that's right he's also a lot of 2787 01:58:49,839 --> 01:58:47,059 the moderators so if you're a bad boy or 2788 01:58:51,609 --> 01:58:49,849 a bad girl yeah I know how do I know how 2789 01:58:53,020 --> 01:58:51,619 to ban people now that's right I taught 2790 01:58:55,989 --> 01:58:53,030 him how to ban people something that 2791 01:58:59,350 --> 01:58:55,999 Paul Kimble long ago discovered and so 2792 01:59:01,270 --> 01:58:59,360 Paul of course led us in this great 2793 01:59:03,489 --> 01:59:01,280 degree of knowledge as I said in the 2794 01:59:06,310 --> 01:59:03,499 future episode we're going to have Nick 2795 01:59:08,350 --> 01:59:06,320 Redfern to talk about his book about 2796 01:59:11,020 --> 01:59:08,360 contactees and Jim Mosely will be 2797 01:59:13,089 --> 01:59:11,030 joining us the eternal Jim Mosely I want 2798 01:59:15,479 --> 01:59:13,099 to have special thank you for this 2799 01:59:18,690 --> 01:59:15,489 fascinating session to my Cleland 2800 01:59:21,240 --> 01:59:18,700 Allen Greenfield Michael Mott Walter 2801 01:59:24,030 --> 01:59:21,250 Bosley Chris it was a great one wasn't 2802 01:59:28,080 --> 01:59:24,040 it thank you all for joining us thank 2803 01:59:31,160 --> 01:59:28,090 you no thank you guys a really really 2804 01:59:33,660 --> 01:59:31,170 good time on the show I appreciate being 2805 01:59:52,210 --> 01:59:33,670 brought into the fold guys thanks for 2806 01:59:57,350 --> 01:59:55,190 two minutes leave following an adventure